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regarding CHP fees, et al.

ChristCrusader

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2014
Messages
199
Location
Virginia, US
Any permit, licensing, or training hurdles with attached costs, set up by the government between a person and their right to keep and bear arms, should be born by the government, not the individual seeking to exercise their right.

If society thinks it's in society's interest to have their govt erect these costly barriers, then society as a whole should bear those costs for that service they want provided to them - cuz it's certainly not a service that benefits the individual keeper/bearer, and erecting those hurdles before them are otherwise infringements.

You demand records or training? You pay for it. It certainly doesn't benefit me for the local courthouse to keep my record on file, or to have local, state, and federal authorities prying into my records. If society/courts say that I can have my gun(s), and are not restricting me from them, only that these other steps must be done for society's sake, then let society pay for what they want. Otherwise they are barriers to me.
 
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skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
But concealed carry in Virginia is not a right; it is a crime.

A mechanism has been established to provide an exception to the crime of carrying a concealed handgun. There are qualifications that must be met for being granted that exception. As a grant, leave, or let from committing the crime the state may charge an administrative fee.

I hate it when I sound like I am defending the state against the citizens when reminding people of the boundaries of the right to keep and bear arms. I'm not. I'm pointing out what should be the obvious.

stay safe.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
But concealed carry in Virginia is not a right; it is a crime.

A mechanism has been established to provide an exception to the crime of carrying a concealed handgun. There are qualifications that must be met for being granted that exception. As a grant, leave, or let from committing the crime the state may charge an administrative fee.

I hate it when I sound like I am defending the state against the citizens when reminding people of the boundaries of the right to keep and bear arms. I'm not. I'm pointing out what should be the obvious.

stay safe.

btw skid, thanks for that perspective...to be candid, that specific concept truly escaped my consciousness...

now i understood the perspective if someone uses their firearm/weapon in their defence and someone dies, you would be charged w/murder/homicide/etc and the SD exceptions were put into place to be used if the nice DA/LEs wish to grant you those exceptions to exonerate from your 'crime'.

but didn't think about the CC perspective...

appreciate...needed something to contemplate for the day.

ipse
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
Skids right and it's not the only instance in va. The trespassing laws in Va are forgiven with three words. Looking for my dogs.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
Skids right and it's not the only instance in va. The trespassing laws in Va are forgiven with three words. Looking for my dogs.

uh, math isn't your strong suit is it peter..

look'g (1)

for (2)

my (3)

dogs (4)

yepper here in NC that phrase still equals F O U R words!! darn good primary education received if i do say so myself!!

needed something to continue the chuckle ...thanks peter...am glad you're feeling a bit better..

ipse
 
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peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
uh, math isn't your strong suit is it peter..

look'g (1)

for (2)

my (3)

dogs (4)

yepper here in NC that phrase still equals F O U R words!! darn good primary education received if i do say so myself!!

needed something to continue the chuckle ...thanks peter...am glad you're feeling a bit better..

ipse

What can I say.....:eek: other than. Duh!
Gotta quit chewing the lead off the bullet casting molds.
 
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OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
uh, math isn't your strong suit is it peter..

look'g (1)

for (2)

my (3)

dogs (4)

yepper here in NC that phrase still equals F O U R words!! darn good primary education received if i do say so myself!!

needed something to continue the chuckle ...thanks peter...am glad you're feeling a bit better..

ipse
Maybe in NC...here in SC it is three words:

1)Lookinfer 2)ma 3)dawgs!

YMMV
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
Maybe in NC...here in SC it is three words:

1)Lookinfer 2)ma 3)dawgs!

YMMV

In the better parts of Virginia it's really two words - seen madawgs?

I'm still trying to figure out why it's called dog hunting if nobody shoots them. Unless you do that it's just hide and go seek in somebody else's woods.

stay safe.
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
btw skid, thanks for that perspective...to be candid, that specific concept truly escaped my consciousness...

now i understood the perspective if someone uses their firearm/weapon in their defence and someone dies, you would be charged w/murder/homicide/etc and the SD exceptions were put into place to be used if the nice DA/LEs wish to grant you those exceptions to exonerate from your 'crime'.

but didn't think about the CC perspective...

appreciate...needed something to contemplate for the day.

ipse

In order to claim excusable or justified homicide you have to first plead guilty to killing someone. The DAs/LEs do not grant you those exceptions - mostly they work to prove you killing was not excusable/justified.

It is the jury that determines 1) that you are in fact guilty of killing somebody and then 2) if your doing so was excusable/justified. Not guilty because of excuse/not guilty because of justification. Thus not "exonerated" but acquitted.

None of that "I didn't mean to" or "I just wanted to scare him" stuff. Straight up "Yes, I shot him. When I shot him I meant to kill him." (DRT or later on does not matter - just that you intended for him to become other than among the living.)

Now you should have enough to keep you cogitating for the whole week.:D

stay safe.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
In order to claim excusable or justified homicide you have to first plead guilty to killing someone. The DAs/LEs do not grant you those exceptions - mostly they work to prove you killing was not excusable/justified.
It is the jury that determines 1) that you are in fact guilty of killing somebody and then 2) if your doing so was excusable/justified. Not guilty because of excuse/not guilty because of justification. Thus not "exonerated" but acquitted.
None of that "I didn't mean to" or "I just wanted to scare him" stuff. Straight up "Yes, I shot him. When I shot him I meant to kill him." (DRT or later on does not matter - just that you intended for him to become other than among the living.)
Now you should have enough to keep you cogitating for the whole week.:D

stay safe.

thanks the subject matter mental churn ~ maybe later this week unless another squirrel surfaces by then but today and prob tomorrow's regurgitation is already booked to contemplate 42, now where was I hummm succeeds 41 and precedes 43....

ttfn

916195
 

ChristCrusader

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2014
Messages
199
Location
Virginia, US
But concealed carry in Virginia is not a right; it is a crime.
Well THERE'S the problem!
It shouldn't be a crime, because by nature, common sense, and the Supreme law of the land, it's a right; and criminalizing a legitimate form of bearing is an infringement ~ nullifying the subsequent "justified" hoops and hurdles thereafter that the would-be concealed-carrier must surmount through performance, payment, or time.

[strike]A mechanism has been established to provide an exception to the crime of carrying a concealed handgun. There are qualifications that must be met for being granted that exception. As a grant, leave, or let from committing the crime the state may charge an administrative fee.[/strike]

I hate it when I sound like I am defending the state against the citizens when reminding people of the boundaries of the right to keep and bear arms.
me too!

I'm not. I'm pointing out what should be the obvious.

You fell into their obedient hypnotic trance and defended their justification built upon their false premise!

Interesting point of view / well spun, though.
Advance to Kool-Aid Server level from Kool-Aid Drinker ;-)
 
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skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
You live in your make-believe wish-it-were-true world and I'll live in reality while working to make changes to bring about some of what are currently just fantasies.

stay safe.
 

Liberty-or-Death

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2014
Messages
411
Location
23235
If they are legal tools to possess, how are they illegal to carry on one's person? Whether openly viewable or hidden from view, how is it anyone's business but mine?

Why do I need special dispensation to do what is natural, i.e.: be safe and secure in my person, papers, and effects when away from home?

This is a typical legislative non sequitur.
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
If they are legal tools to possess, how are they illegal to carry on one's person? Whether openly viewable or hidden from view, how is it anyone's business but mine?

Why do I need special dispensation to do what is natural, i.e.: be safe and secure in my person, papers, and effects when away from home?

This is a typical legislative non sequitur.

No, because Open Carry is the legal default.

And it's not that they are illegal to carry on your person - it is that it is illegal to carry or concealed.

It's the state's business because, among other things, it provides them with a way to make a buck.

If you want the full rundown on why CC is illegal I'll give it to you the next time we sit down together - it takes about 2 hours.

stay safe.
 

Liberty-or-Death

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2014
Messages
411
Location
23235
For the liberty-centric, what's in my pockets is my concern, no one else's, regardless what this or that locale decides is not a matter of liberty.
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,936
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
uh, math isn't your strong suit is it peter..

look'g (1)

for (2)

my (3)

dogs (4)

yepper here in NC that phrase still equals F O U R words!! darn good primary education received if i do say so myself!!

needed something to continue the chuckle ...thanks peter...am glad you're feeling a bit better..

ipse
Yet again, reverse polish notation.

But, prepositions are a nullity. Answer = 3.....
 

ChristCrusader

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2014
Messages
199
Location
Virginia, US
For the liberty-centric, what's in my pockets is my concern, no one else's, regardless what this or that locale decides is not a matter of liberty.

... and don't forget it's not just deep concealment that's illegal, but wearing an outer garment - even if temporarily - over top of an otherwise openly carried firearm, be it ever so briefly or to match environmental conditions.
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,936
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
No, because Open Carry is the legal default.

And it's not that they are illegal to carry on your person - it is that it is illegal to carry or concealed.

It's the state's business because, among other things, it provides them with a way to make a buck.

If you want the full rundown on why CC is illegal I'll give it to you the next time we sit down together - it takes about 2 hours.

stay safe.
That must be the Cliff notes version.
 
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