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Thread: open carry childrens sports events

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    open carry childrens sports events

    i had initially decided my step daughters soccer games were one place i would not open carry however i am reconsidering this..the elder onw has two playoff games saturday and i am heavily considering it. ill admit my motives arent entirely pure. the kids side of the family will be there and they all run liberal. thier grandma even runs a small diner with huge no firearms signs she put up. anyone carry things like this openly? the games are all at city parks
    Last edited by caleb4387; 10-23-2015 at 02:17 PM.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caleb4387 View Post
    i had initially decided my step daughters soccer games were one place i would not open carry however i am reconsidering this..the elder onw has two playoff games saturday and i am heavily considering it. ill admit my motives arent entirely pure. the kids side of the family will be there and they all run liberal. thier grandma even runs a small diner with huge no firearms signs she put up. anyone carry things like this openly? the games are all at city parks
    As long it is not school property you should be good to go.

    And you better have a recorder.

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    I'm still trying to get a decent one. This is one place I expect to have trouble

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    What do you hope to achieve with open carry in this particular situation ? (That is just a question, not any sort of judgement on my part.) Weigh potential positives versus negatives.

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    Regular Member DeSchaine's Avatar
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    I'm going to assume that your local laws allow you carry in city parks and such, much like us here in Michigan. If thats the case, then you shouldnt have an issue. I've carried at every single one of my sons Rocket football games and I've never had anyone say anything to me. Kind of odd when you think about it. I mean, a gun around all those kids? Oh the humanity! lol
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    Regular Member Nang pa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caleb4387 View Post
    i had initially decided my step daughters soccer games were one place i would not open carry however i am reconsidering this..the elder onw has two playoff games saturday and i am heavily considering it. ill admit my motives arent entirely pure. the kids side of the family will be there and they all run liberal. thier grandma even runs a small diner with huge no firearms signs she put up. anyone carry things like this openly? the games are all at city parks
    I agree with your behavior here. People need well established boundaries.

    Do yourself a favor and have a voice recorder on you and running the entire time, and be very polite.
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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeSchaine View Post
    I'm going to assume that your local laws allow you carry in city parks and such, much like us here in Michigan. If thats the case, then you shouldnt have an issue. I've carried at every single one of my sons Rocket football games and I've never had anyone say anything to me. Kind of odd when you think about it. I mean, a gun around all those kids? Oh the humanity! lol
    Only the state can regulate the carrying of firearms, ORC 9.68. Locals cannot interfere with the carrying of firearms on public property.

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    Regular Member Chuck!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    As long it is not school property you should be good to go.


    I disagree if the soccer game is a school event, for example, she plays on a school team that is using the parks soccer fields, he is risking a felony, as per ORC2923.122 and ORC2901.01.

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck! View Post
    I disagree if the soccer game is a school event, for example, she plays on a school team that is using the parks soccer fields, he is risking a felony, as per ORC2923.122 and ORC2901.01.
    Links are always nice, as are citations to the specific relevant section of the ORC, when one directs another's attention to the ORC.

    "School activity", btw, is this: "School activity" means any activity held under the auspices of a board of education of a city, local, exempted village, joint vocational, or cooperative education school district; a governing authority of a community school established under Chapter 3314. of the Revised Code; a governing board of an educational service center, or the governing body of a school for which the state board of education prescribes minimum standards under section 3301.07 of the Revised Code. ORC 2901.01 (C) (3)

    http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2901.01
    Last edited by BB62; 10-24-2015 at 01:37 PM.

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    Regular Member DeSchaine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    Only the state can regulate the carrying of firearms, ORC 9.68. Locals cannot interfere with the carrying of firearms on public property.
    Ah ha. Pre empted like Michigan. Then yes, I'd say it's fine to carry during the game. Be prepared though. I wouldn't put it past some fruitcake to call 5-0.
    Guard with jealous attention the public liberty.
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    Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined.
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    Regular Member Chuck!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    Links are always nice, as are citations to the specific relevant section of the ORC, when one directs another's attention to the ORC.

    Last edited by Chuck!; 10-24-2015 at 05:27 PM.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck! View Post
    I disagree if the soccer game is a school event, for example, she plays on a school team that is using the parks soccer fields, he is risking a felony, as per ORC2923.122 and ORC2901.01.
    Most youth soccer leagues are not a "school activity" held under the auspices of some board of education. The OP made no mention that the event he is observing is a “school activity.”

    In any event, what little case law that exists addressing "school activity," not one deals with a "school activity" off of school property.

    And it would be absurd to believe that just because a school activity is being held on public property open to the public that that school activity would somehow now becomes a “school zone.” In effect, stripping the citizen of their constitutional rights.

    Example: Lets say there is some guy sitting on a park bench eating an Egg-McMuffin. We'll call this guy Chuck. And Chuck has two 1911's; one holstered on each hip. And not to be out done, Chuck also has a third 1911 in a chest holster. Unbeknownst to Chuck the local school has a field trip to the local park. The same park Chuck is enjoying and eating his Egg-McMuffin. While Chuck is sitting on the bench a school bus pulls into the lot and twenty-five fourth graders invade the picnic tables just feet from where Chuck is sitting. Based on Chuck's scenario he just became a felon.

    The same above example, but Chuck is walking a walking path that encompasses the public soccer fields. Unbeknownst to Chuck, the soccer game being played is a “school activity” and just because Chuck walks by, per Chuck, he is an instant felon.

    Absurd.

    Let's look in part at ORC 2923.122(A) and (B). (A) No person shall knowingly convey, or attempt to convey, a deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance into a school safety zone.
    (B) No person shall knowingly possess a deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance in a school safety zone.

    Both (A) and (B) use the term “Knowingly.

    2901.22(B) A person acts knowingly, regardless of purpose, when the person is aware that the person's conduct will probably cause a certain result or will probably be of a certain nature. A person has knowledge of circumstances when the person is aware that such circumstances probably exist. When knowledge of the existence of a particular fact is an element of an offense, such knowledge is established if a person subjectively believes that there is a high probability of its existence and fails to make inquiry or acts with a conscious purpose to avoid learning the fact.

    Subjective is the opposite of objective, which refers to things that are more clear-cut. That Earth has one moon is objective — it's a fact. Whether the moon is pretty or not is subjective — not everyone will agree. Facts are objective, but opinions are subjective.

    Believe is to accept (something) as true; feel sure of the truth of, or hold (something) as an opinion; think or suppose.

    Being in a public park does not lead to a subjective belief that you are in a “school zone/school activity.”

    2923.122(A) uses the word “into” and 2923.122(B) uses “in.”

    Definition of “into” - preposition: into - Expressing movement or action with the result that someone or something becomes enclosed or surrounded by something else.

    Definition of “in” - preposition: in - Expressing the situation of something that is or appears to be enclosed or surrounded by something else.

    Now, sitting in the bleachers observing or observing from the walking track is not knowingly entering into a school safety zone, nor is it knowingly being in a school safety zone.

    Living your life based on crying the sky is falling or telling everybody the sky is falling gets a little old.

    We cannot stop stupid cops from stupid things. And we cannot stop stupid people from stupid things.

    MWAG calls where stupid cops and/or stupid people end-up violating someones rights usually ends up taxing the public.

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    Last edited by color of law; 10-26-2015 at 09:15 AM. Reason: correct a citation

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    Chuck.

    It would be hard for "Chuck" to claim "unknowingly" if he was at his kid's soccer game,,,,

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck! View Post
    It would be hard for "Chuck" to claim "unknowingly" if he was at his kid's soccer game,,,,
    You are offering a fallacious argument by selective reading, typical, and you know it.

    It is obvious that someone knows they are watching a soccer game. But, watching does not mean the person is knowingly entering into a school safety zone or knowingly being in a school safety zone if the soccer game is being held on public property open the the public.

    No question that you are at a “school activity” when the activity is in a school safety zone, meaning on school property.

    A "School activity" is not defined by statute or by case law as to its physical size or by what parameters or what encompasses such school activity, or the premises at which a school activity is occurring. Is the parcel of real property owned by the school or is the parcel of real property leased by the school or rented for a hour, a day, or some other length of time? Is the property marked in any why?

    If there is no notice as the the type of activity, meaning notice of a "School activity" that is being held on public property that is open to the public then there is nothing to base “knowingly” on.

    Your simplistic rhetoric does no good for the readers of this forum.

    My simple statement to the OP “As long it is not school property you should be good to go” encapsulates my lengthy explanation.

    You offered nothing.....

    I hope what I offered is food for thought for the OP.

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    Regular Member Chuck!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    You are offering a fallacious argument by selective reading, typical, and you know it.


    <snip>


    You offered nothing.....
    I wasn't offering an argument, fallacious or otherwise


    Thank you for judging me,,,,
    Last edited by Chuck!; 10-25-2015 at 07:36 PM.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck! View Post
    I wasn't offering an argument, fallacious or otherwise


    Thank you for judging me,,,,
    It's my pleasure, any time.

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    There was nary a complaint. I'm sure it will be different in the cities.....no it's not a school event it's a stand alone recreation league held in a city park. Went well as did the usual kroger run.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian D. View Post
    What do you hope to achieve with open carry in this particular situation ? (That is just a question, not any sort of judgement on my part.) Weigh potential positives versus negatives.
    I hoped to open carry my firearm because I wanted to tuck my shirt in and it wasn't cool enough to need a jacket. Mission accomplished

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    Just asking. My thought process was mostly along the lines of potential problems if a family member got really upset and tried to make it an ongoing issue for gawd knows how long they might want to carp. Just keep in mind they abject hatred some anti gun folks feel towards us, it's almost like a mental disorder.

  20. #20
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    Sort of like the abject hatred some of the pro-gun people have towards some of us; it's almost like a mental disorder,,,,

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    Quote Originally Posted by caleb4387 View Post
    There was nary a complaint. I'm sure it will be different in the cities.....no it's not a school event it's a stand alone recreation league held in a city park. Went well as did the usual kroger run.


    Good to hear, carry on!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck! View Post
    Sort of like the abject hatred some of the pro-gun people have towards some of us; it's almost like a mental disorder,,,,
    Ain't hat the truth

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