Why are Conceal Carriers so anti-Open Carry?

Grapeshot said:

The fickle finger of fate or common finger wave is quickly recognized by discerning individuals.

I rely on deaf people grasping the tone of my voice and blind people to study the expression on my face. The loss of one sense frequently enhances others. Many (most?) will still retain touch, hence Braille is an option.

When the loss of normal capacities exceeds hitherto untold levels, I will accept them on their terms......as I trust they will me.

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https://research.gallaudet.edu/Demographics/deaf-US.php

Across all age groups, in the United States, approximately 1,000,000 people (0.38% of the population, or 3.8 per 1,000) over 5 years of age are "functionally deaf;" more than half are over 65 years of age.

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Gotta appease the 0.38%, right?

Grapeshot said:

The fickle finger of fate or common finger wave is quickly recognized by discerning individuals.

I rely on deaf people grasping the tone of my voice and blind people to study the expression on my face. The loss of one sense frequently enhances others. Many (most?) will still retain touch, hence Braille is an option.

When the loss of normal capacities exceeds hitherto untold levels, I will accept them on their terms......as I trust they will me.

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Hey, at least you moved onto something that affects a whopping 3% of the population in America
http://www.cdc.gov/visionhealth/basic_information/vision_loss_burden.htm

(3%) Americans aged 40 years and older are either legally blind (having visual acuity [VA] of 20/200 or worse or a visual field of less than 20 degrees) or are visually impaired (having VA of 20/40 or less)

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Want to try some other disability for justification?

Dave_pro2a said:

Hey, at least you moved onto something that affects a whopping 3% of the population in America
http://www.cdc.gov/visionhealth/basic_information/vision_loss_burden.htm


Want to try some other disability for justification?

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You are cherry picking the numbers relating to hearing problems - it is much greater than that figure would indicate.
http://www.nidcd.nih.gov/health/statistics/pages/quick.aspx

Telling numbers on blindness, loss of visual acuity:
https://nfb.org/blindness-statistics

As to finding some other disability, you are providing plenty of help

poetdante said:

Why are Conceal Carriers so anti-Open Carry?

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We're not.

In fact, many of us are also Open Carriers.

Grapeshot said:

You are cherry picking the numbers relating to hearing problems - it is much greater than that figure would indicate.
http://www.nidcd.nih.gov/health/statistics/pages/quick.aspx

Telling numbers on blindness, loss of visual acuity:
https://nfb.org/blindness-statistics

As to finding some other disability, you are providing plenty of help

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You do realize that crap you posted relies on "self reported and self assessed" surveys.

Which make it worthless, for real medical science.

BTW, most Union construction workers claim some hearing loss right before retirement.

It makes almost all future hearing aids... FREE $$.

And that's a hard test to lie about, right? "Do you hear a noise?"

Unions.

poetdante said:

"Setback the movement" notion is strong among the students for concealed carry (those I spoke to). I personally would love to OC a shotgun like it was a normal thing (even then, my favorite weapon is a handgun). I personally am for carrying whatever you want.

As for the folks saying "some" CCers. Yes, I meant some. But so far, all my interactions with CCers has turned nasty when I mention OC. I had to put my foot down as president for Students for Concealed Carry at UofL with our members saying "we support the 2A. Period. Main goal is concealed carry on campus but who are we to judge how people choose to practice their right and not be any more hypocritical than anti-gunners?"

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Be careful. SCC is pretty strict about chapters staying on message. They only authorize the use of the Students for Concealed Carry name in advocating for licensed, concealed carry on college campuses. SCC's official position is that the organization takes no official position (i.e., doesn't advocate one way or the other) on unlicensed carry, open carry, carry at primary/secondary schools, or other 2A issues. If they see you using their trademarked name, trademarked logo, or copyrighted literature to promote anything other than licensed, concealed carry on college campuses, they may shut you down.

Dave_pro2a said:

You do realize that crap you posted relies on "self reported and self assessed" surveys.

Which make it worthless, for real medical science.

BTW, most Union construction workers claim some hearing loss right before retirement.

It makes almost all future hearing aids... FREE $$.

And that's a hard test to lie about, right? "Do you hear a noise?"

Unions.

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Do I see personal insult?

The links provided are in no way "self reported and self assessed" and they are hardly worthless.

The ability to use one's senses relates to the use of personal defense tools whether the distinctions of CC or OC are included.

Grapeshot said:

The fickle finger of fate or common finger wave is quickly recognized by discerning individuals.

I rely on deaf people grasping the tone of my voice and blind people to study the expression on my face. The loss of one sense frequently enhances others. Many (most?) will still retain touch, hence Braille is an option.

When the loss of normal capacities exceeds hitherto untold levels, I will accept them on their terms......as I trust they will me.

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I'm confused. Did you mean to have that backwards?

Speaking of blind people, my fiance is pro-OC, she says she can hear the holster easier than when it is inside of clothing (granted she is exceptional and has a 6th sense )

kinggabby said:

I posted the following on a local conceal/ open carry Facebook site. And the response to me was sad. Edited to make to remove the posted names and bad language. Sadly I have not had anyone who is conceal only answer the following question. To me this was a simple question.

Them:

I conceal carry but that's my preference because I feel open carry paints a target on my back. Although sometimes I open carry but that is rare. There is always going to be someone scared, nothing you can do about it.

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Me:

Ok but how do you make it normal for non gun people? I am not interested in why you conceal because that is not answering my question. That is just side stepping the issue. I want real answers people not how you don't want to be a target or having your gun grabbed. Since non gun people can't see your gun how do you educate them ?

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Them:

Why do you care if a non gun person cares if you are conceal carrying? You want a point blank answer, if they can't see it you have done your part. They feel normal BECAUSE they don't know you have it. If you are trying to educate people on gun safety while you are concealed carrying while in public you may as well carry openly.

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Me:

Not getting it are you?

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This is where the "discussion" went south. The fella who was not "getting it" were you. You had a opportunity and you blew it.

Bladed said:

Be careful. SCC is pretty strict about chapters staying on message. They only authorize the use of the Students for Concealed Carry name in advocating for licensed, concealed carry on college campuses. SCC's official position is that the organization takes no official position (i.e., doesn't advocate one way or the other) on unlicensed carry, open carry, carry at primary/secondary schools, or other 2A issues. If they see you using their trademarked name, trademarked logo, or copyrighted literature to promote anything other than licensed, concealed carry on college campuses, they may shut you down.

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Yep. I'm KY State Director and was told that in the interview. We can be pro-2A in general but our MAIN goal is for concealed carry on campus. Our members can have their views, but our official stance is CC on college campuses. Hence I did not say we were for OC on college campuses, but we cannot say we are against OC in other areas. As a 2A group though, we welcome anyone interested in guns because we are MORE than just CC, so if students have questions on ways of carrying and self defense other than CC a firearm, we're there to help. CC on campus was specific due to the nature of classrooms and close proximity where your attention has to be completely focused on the material learned/tested rather than your OC sidearm. We also have no stance on AR-15s, K-12 carry, etc.

Originally Posted by Grapeshot
The fickle finger of fate or common finger wave is quickly recognized by discerning individuals.

I rely on deaf people grasping the tone of my voice and blind people to study the expression on my face. The loss of one sense frequently enhances others. Many (most?) will still retain touch, hence Braille is an option.

When the loss of normal capacities exceeds hitherto untold levels, I will accept them on their terms......as I trust they will me.

Click to expand...

poetdante said:

I'm confused. Did you mean to have that backwards?

Speaking of blind people, my fiance is pro-OC, she says she can hear the holster easier than when it is inside of clothing (granted she is exceptional and has a 6th sense )

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It was posted as intended - to make a point. Most people don't catch it. Not really sarcasm either.

I was being lightly sniped at the time as to people's ability to see and hear w/o special training.

Grapeshot said:

It was posted as intended - to make a point. Most people don't catch it. Not really sarcasm either.

I was being lightly sniped at the time as to people's ability to see and hear w/o special training.

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I disagree.

Thread topic: CCW group not liking OC group.

My take: OC group doesn't like long arm carry.

That's a 1:1 comparison of attitudes over related issues.

Grape sniped me with his disability comment, paraphrased "OCers hate long arm carry because it means you can't communicate with deaf people"

I mean, engaged with non-sequitur comment. I merely rebutted him at face value.

A racist black person should get called out for his racism when he tries to label a white person as acting racist.

A person who chooses to open carry a pistol, and proselytize it to the CCW crowd, should similarly have his hypocrisy pointed out. IMHO. It removes the 'self righteous' nature of their argument.

So, here's my question: How do you reconcile embracing OC of pistols but rejecting OC of rifles.

Dave_pro2a said:

I disagree.

Thread topic: CCW group not liking OC group.

My take: OC group doesn't like long arm carry.

That's a 1:1 comparison of attitudes over related issues.

Grape sniped me with his disability comment, paraphrased "OCers hate long arm carry because it means you can't communicate with deaf people"

I mean, engaged with non-sequitur comment. I merely rebutted him at face value.

A racist black person should get called out for his racism when he tries to label a white person as acting racist.

A person who chooses to open carry a pistol, and proselytize it to the CCW crowd, should similarly have his hypocrisy pointed out. IMHO. It removes the 'self righteous' nature of their argument.

So, here's my question: How do you reconcile embracing OC of pistols but rejecting OC of rifles.

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You are wearing the ice beneath your feet thin.

We do not "reconcile embracing OC of pistiols but rejecting....." OCDO is private property wherein we promote and defend normalizing OC of holstered handguns as we go about our everyday lives.

Grapeshot said:

Do I see personal insult?

The links provided are in no way "self reported and self assessed" and they are hardly worthless.

The ability to use one's senses relates to the use of personal defense tools whether the distinctions of CC or OC are included.

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Read the notations on the links you posted, to see how and where they gathered the data to make their claims.

For instance, one of your 'sources' cite this http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nhis/about_nhis.htm

That's not based on scientific tests afaik. It's not based on REAL MEDICAL RECORDS.

It's a survey filled out by participants, self reporting on the questions asked.

And I know enough retired union guys who get free hearing aids to know the lies that people tell.

Grapeshot said:

You are wearing the ice beneath your feet thin.

We do not "reconcile embracing OC of pistiols but rejecting....." OCDO is private property wherein we promote and defend normalizing OC of holstered handguns as we go about our everyday lives.

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I am NOT advocating open carry of rifles.

OP is moaning about CCWers being judgmental. Seems fair to point out that it's the pot calling the kettle black.

Maybe a 'live and let live' philosophy would mean he wouldn't seem like a guy in a glass house lobbing rocks.

Grapeshot said:

You are wearing the ice beneath your feet thin.

We do not "reconcile embracing OC of pistiols but rejecting....." OCDO is private property wherein we promote and defend normalizing OC of holstered handguns as we go about our everyday lives.

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Yeah we missunderstand each other.

I'm not asking "we."

I'm not complaining about the boards narrow topic.

I'm not taking issue with John the lawyers line in the sand over rifles.

The OP is moaning about judgmental-ism in the gun community.

I'm putting forth a question aimed at the individuals reading the thread. How can you condemn someone elses judgmental actions, when often your own niche within the larger community is labeled as also being judgmental.

Seems fair, and a question each person really ought to ask themselves, before standing in judgment of others.

Has the OP exhibited pot/kettle posts in the past. If so then there is a problem with his sincerity. If not I do not see the problem with his complaint.

Dave_pro2a said:

...
Maybe a 'live and let live' philosophy would mean he wouldn't seem like a guy in a glass house lobbing rocks.

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You mean like, "Judge not, lest ye be judged."?

Bikenut said:

Some CC'ers have the notion that since they passed a class and got a permission slip from Daddy government they are more important than the unwashed masses who don't have that permit.

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This is the core of it. Folks get a warm-n-fuzzy feeling from the approbation inherent in licensure, and so any evidence that their permit is silly/irrelevant/unnecessary quite literally makes them feel bad.

I too have seen heavy anti OC sentiment from CCers. I have a unique perspective because i lived in West Memphis, AR (CCW State) but 10 minutes from Memphis, TN (OC w/ permit state). Anyway, Arkansas passed a Constitutional Carry bill a few years ago but the state police and AG refused to recognize it. the AG finally caved and recognized OC but sheriffs across the state refused to recognize it. In my own county, dozens of people posted questions about it on the local police/sheriff FB pages but they were all deleted or never responded to by LEOs which normally respond to posts in a matter of minutes.

Personally, i think anti OC attitude stems from the CCW instructors (many of which are LEOs) and also don't want to lose their weekend money from those BS classes. They perpetuate all the anti OC reasons to their students plus after you have paid for something, why would you want to admit that there is a better way that is cheaper/free? It would be much better if the instructors explained the honest advantages of both. I both CC and OC depending on the situation and area. As a responsible owner, i believe there are times when OC is inappropriate however, it is my preferred method of carry. Unsavory looking characters instantly seek to create distance from me when they see I am carrying whereas normal people rarely notice.

It's also interesting how anti long gun OC many pistol OCers are. Once again, i support long gun open carry but in a responsible manner. I wouldn't go strolling through JCpenny with my AR slung but i may want to sling it on a hike on the AT or when i am camping.