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Thread: no no guns signs at ABC

  1. #1
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    no no guns signs at ABC

    I've been looking for no guns signs at state buildings and not finding any. I stopped in an ABC store and asked...while open carrying...they didn't even know about the executive order, said it was stupid and until otherwise ordered, open carry was welcome.

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Wasn't planning on desisting... however...
    Last edited by The Truth; 10-27-2015 at 10:42 PM. Reason: changed my mind upon education
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Regular Member wrearick's Avatar
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    there was something in the fine print about rules/policy coming out in 30 days to address the implementation of the EO. Until they are published there is no standard to violate. (in my opinion)

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    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    It's probably a fair assumption that most ABC stores are leased property and not government owned facilities.

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    Regular Member speed41ae's Avatar
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    I was shopping in the ABC store at Willow Lawn and did not see any signage either and I did not ask about it.

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    Activist Member Wolf_shadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoom6zoom View Post
    It's probably a fair assumption that most ABC stores are leased property and not government owned facilities.
    Even though the ABC store may be in rental property, inside the store is controlled by the state gov! Until the Legislature makes it illegal for state executive branch agencies to ban carry they can.
    Yes I carry a Bible and a Gun, your point.
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    Benjamin Franklin said, "A government that does not trust it's citizens with guns is a government that should not be trusted."



  7. #7
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoom6zoom View Post
    It's probably a fair assumption that most ABC stores are leased property and not government owned facilities.
    They are still government facilities (offices, buildings or otherwise places of government business) whether they are leased or owned.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoom6zoom View Post
    It's probably a fair assumption that most ABC stores are leased property and not government owned facilities.
    Of the 300+ stores, the ABC actually owns maybe 10 pieces of property. All the rest are leased. That said, they are still under the control and operation of the ABC. Their rules apply. "Owned or controlled" applies.

    Currently, there is no "rule" against OC.

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by va_tazdad View Post

    Currently, there is no "rule" against OC.
    As of the publication of EO 50 there is a rule.

    That the administration and employees of ABC (and probably most other executive branch facilities) are unaware of the EO and its contents is just a monumental example of the efficiency of the current administration.

    VI.
    Banning Firearms in State Government Buildings

    We must take every precaution to protect our citizens and state employees from gun violence. We cannot wait until a tragedy occurs to decide to address it.
    Prevention requires us to address areas of concern before they are realized. Accordingly, I hereby declare that it is the policy of the Commonwealth that open carry of firearms shall be prohibited in offices occupied by executive branch agencies, unless held by law enforcement, authorized security, or military personnel authorized to carry firearms in accordance with their duties.
    Within 30 days of the date of this Executive Order, the Director of the Department of General Services (DGS) shall issue guidance prohibiting carrying weapons openly in offices occupied by executive branch agencies. I further order the Director of DGS, within 30 days of the date of this Executive Order, to
    propose regulations to ban the carrying of concealed weapons in offices occupied by executive branch agencies, unless held by law enforcement, authorized security, or military personnel authorized to carry firearms in accordance with their duties.
    The policy prohibiting OC was effective on publication. That it will take as much as 30 days for the Director of DGS to go through an emergency purchasing procedure or government printing to get signs to put up is not relevant. An on-the-ball ABC agent or State Police trooper could make someone's life hell now.

    stay safe
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    As of the publication of EO 50 there is a rule.

    That the administration and employees of ABC (and probably most other executive branch facilities) are unaware of the EO and its contents is just a monumental example of the efficiency of the current administration.



    The policy prohibiting OC was effective on publication. That it will take as much as 30 days for the Director of DGS to go through an emergency purchasing procedure or government printing to get signs to put up is not relevant. An on-the-ball ABC agent or State Police trooper could make someone's life hell now.

    stay safe
    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha Oh wait, you were serious? Do they have any, or have they all retired?

  11. #11
    Regular Member altajava's Avatar
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    I was just in my local ABC, doesn't appear word has been sent down. The guy that runs it was more concerned about giving my dog a treat. I know this will be asked so I will elaborate, I used to tie the dog up outside, he witnessed this one day, said he is welcome too, even keeps a box of treats at his cost for the occasion. Lots of dog owners in that neighborhood and a pet store two doors over.

  12. #12
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    I think the governor is gonna have a little trouble getting full compliance. At one of the ABC stores I visit, at least one of the staff seemed very interested in armed self-defense, a subject arising from my OC.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  13. #13
    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    I've checked 3 different ABC stores in the area and there is no new signage.
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

  14. #14
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    I would be surprised to see any signage at the ABC Stores, however the nine regional ABC offices may be a different issue, but I have never been in one of those. The ABC Stores are explicitly referred to as "government stores" in the Code of Virginia. I have not found a reference to the stores as offices in the Code of VA.

    The regional office for the general Lynchburg area is near to the ABC Store on Timberlake Rd, however, it is a completely separate building and location from the store itself. I cannot say for certain that this would be the case for all of the other regions, but in this case, the store is separate from the office.
    Last edited by jmelvin; 11-03-2015 at 12:20 PM.

  15. #15
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Parsing "stores" vs "offices" is an easy way to find yourself supporting the wrong conclusion. Do you know of anywhere besides a "government store" that offers distilled spirits for retail sale? And if there was such a beast it would not - by definition - be an ABC store, would it?

    Do all y'all remember the parsing and slicing and pinhead balancing of "government facility" and "office"we went through with OC in National Parks, and which parts would be off limits? And then how the determination was made if we could or could not carry in which parts? I'm seriously looking for similar "guidance" to come down about executive branch offices as opposed to executive branch anything-that's-not-an-office.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  16. #16
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Parsing "stores" vs "offices" is an easy way to find yourself supporting the wrong conclusion. Do you know of anywhere besides a "government store" that offers distilled spirits for retail sale? And if there was such a beast it would not - by definition - be an ABC store, would it?

    Do all y'all remember the parsing and slicing and pinhead balancing of "government facility" and "office"we went through with OC in National Parks, and which parts would be off limits? And then how the determination was made if we could or could not carry in which parts? I'm seriously looking for similar "guidance" to come down about executive branch offices as opposed to executive branch anything-that's-not-an-office.

    stay safe.
    A government "orifice" might be more appropriate. Fits the situation and the giver of executive orders quite well me thinks.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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