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Thread: armed men protecting homeless camp in Vancouver

  1. #1
    Activist Member bwboley's Avatar
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    armed men protecting homeless camp in Vancouver


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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Location of the encampment: 1115 W 13th St, Vancouver, WA 98660

    https://www.google.com/maps/@45.6311...7i13312!8i6656
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  3. #3
    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    Seeing as Vancouver is well known for their anti freedom behavior we'll see how long before the PD starts arresting the volunteers.
    "Loyalty above all else except honor. " -John Mahoney

    "A Government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have." -Gerald R. Ford

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by decklin View Post
    Seeing as Vancouver is well known for their anti freedom behavior we'll see how long before the PD starts arresting the volunteers.
    They seem to be chicken when the armed person is not alone.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  5. #5
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Is there a "security guard" law in WA?

    The Oath Keepers were run outta Ferguson because the cops alleged they were acting as unlicensed security guards.

    Disregard the fact that the property owner requested there free service and the Oath Keeper's acts did not fall within the language of the law.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    So essentially weekend vigilantes?

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Founder's Club Member Jim675's Avatar
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    I don't believe they could legitimately be called vigilantes since they are not pursuing alleged criminals to mete out justice.

    And if they're smart they won't call themselves guards. Just friends who happen to be armed when they come over to visit.

    Those who live on the margins of society have my sympathy in inverse relation to the degree to which their marginalization was self-inflicted. If these armed folks want to help, and the helpees want them, its all good to me.

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    Regular Member jsanchez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim675 View Post
    I don't believe they could legitimately be called vigilantes since they are not pursuing alleged criminals to mete out justice.

    And if they're smart they won't call themselves guards. Just friends who happen to be armed when they come over to visit.

    Those who live on the margins of society have my sympathy in inverse relation to the degree to which their marginalization was self-inflicted. If these armed folks want to help, and the helpees want them, its all good to me.
    +1

    If they see something I hope they would call the police and let the police handle it, but if its life threatening, then they will be there to help until the police arrive.

  9. #9
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    So essentially weekend vigilantes?

    stay safe.
    Hmmm when civilians do it they are "vigilantes".

    I guess the state costumed guys are just mercenaries then.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Hmmm when civilians do it they are "vigilantes".

    I guess the state costumed guys are just mercenaries then.
    Mercenaries get paid. Vigilantes don't.

  11. #11
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Vigilantes think there is a need there. Cops do not think there is a need there?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  12. #12
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seriona View Post
    Mercenaries get paid. Vigilantes don't.
    Yes.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Vigilantes think there is a need there. Cops do not think there is a need there?
    This young lady thinks their is a need.........
    Nancy Gaines, a homeless woman who has lived under a tarp at the encampment outside the Vancouver SHARE shelter for six years says she's been sexually assaulted and stolen from many times. She appreciates the armed volunteers.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    This young lady thinks their is a need.........
    Nancy Gaines, a homeless woman who has lived under a tarp at the encampment outside the Vancouver SHARE shelter for six years says she's been sexually assaulted and stolen from many times. She appreciates the armed volunteers.
    Inquiring minds want to know - what is she doing to protect herself from being a repeat victim?

    Or is this just one more thing that is someone else's responsibility to deal with? (No, she does not need to become a ninja member of Seel Teal XXIV but I'm betting there are some things she could do to reduce her vulnerability.)

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  15. #15
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Inquiring minds want to know - what is she doing to protect herself from being a repeat victim?

    Or is this just one more thing that is someone else's responsibility to deal with? (No, she does not need to become a ninja member of Seel Teal XXIV but I'm betting there are some things she could do to reduce her vulnerability.)

    stay safe.
    Her appreciation is irrelevant to what she is doing.
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 11-05-2015 at 08:53 AM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  16. #16
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Inquiring minds want to know - what is she doing to protect herself from being a repeat victim?

    Or is this just one more thing that is someone else's responsibility to deal with? (No, she does not need to become a ninja member of Seel Teal XXIV but I'm betting there are some things she could do to reduce her vulnerability.)

    stay safe.
    Why not you ask her. She is, apparently, easy to find.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Inquiring minds want to know -

    part one... what is she doing to protect herself from being a repeat victim?

    roman numeral II.......stay safe.
    part one.... What most people do, absolutely nothing.

    Roman numeral II.........She does not understand the concept, as, again, most people do not.

    Some of us understand their are boogymen out there. Some of us have met him. Hence, we prepare to defend ourselves. The dinovite dog supplement touts that "it replaces the nutrients cooked out of regular dog food." I say the "Nutrients" have been "cooked out" of the mind of the majority of the general population. People have been trained to be weak. I cannot pity people who live in their own little version of the Matrix.
    Last edited by MSG Laigaie; 11-02-2015 at 05:33 PM. Reason: spelig
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

  18. #18
    Regular Member Whitney's Avatar
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    Duty to protect ?

    Notwithstanding the lack of a permanent address would it be possible for someone living in a homeless camp / shelter to purchase a firearm for personal self defense? My question is specific to Washington State due to the passage of I-594.

    I know there are some FFL "dealers" here, how would you handle the 4473 form in the case of a homeless person attempting to purchase a firearm?

    I am basically asserting, the government is in fact preventing citizens in this situation from exercising the right to arms simply because they do not have permanent residence.

    I also acknowledge it is possible to acquire firearms legally without a government permission slip, it seems unlikely in the case of this woman and many others in the same situation.


    ~Whitney
    The problem with America is stupidity.
    I'm not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    dumm@ss me posted in wrong thread.
    Last edited by MSG Laigaie; 11-03-2015 at 06:05 PM.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Her appreciate is irrelevant to what she is doing.
    Translation to Standard American English, please.

    Seriously, I cannot make heads or tails of that you wrote.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitney View Post
    Notwithstanding the lack of a permanent address would it be possible for someone living in a homeless camp / shelter to purchase a firearm for personal self defense? My question is specific to Washington State due to the passage of I-594.

    I know there are some FFL "dealers" here, how would you handle the 4473 form in the case of a homeless person attempting to purchase a firearm?

    I am basically asserting, the government is in fact preventing citizens in this situation from exercising the right to arms simply because they do not have permanent residence.

    I also acknowledge it is possible to acquire firearms legally without a government permission slip, it seems unlikely in the case of this woman and many others in the same situation.


    ~Whitney
    There is a difference between being homeless and not having a permanent address, let alone a place of residence. Many times the permanent address is different from the place of residence. What does the 4473 ask for?

    Most of the answers are state-specific and tied to issues of voter registration.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  22. #22
    Regular Member Whitney's Avatar
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    presumptuous perhaps

    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    There is a difference between being homeless and not having a permanent address, let alone a place of residence. Many times the permanent address is different from the place of residence. What does the 4473 ask for?

    Most of the answers are state-specific and tied to issues of voter registration.

    stay safe.


    I did not consider the difference you pointed out, it was presumptuous on my part.


    Do folks in this particular scenario have a "Current Residence Address"?
    I presumed the answer to that question was no.

    Block 2 of the form is where my beef is directed.

    LINK to 4473 : https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download

    2. Current Residence Address (U.S. Postal abbreviations are acceptable. Cannot be a post office box.



    ~Whitney
    Last edited by Whitney; 11-03-2015 at 08:05 PM. Reason: syntax
    The problem with America is stupidity.
    I'm not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

  23. #23
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Translation to Standard American English, please.

    Seriously, I cannot make heads or tails of that you wrote.

    stay safe.
    Fixed it.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitney View Post
    I did not consider the difference you pointed out, it was presumptuous on my part.


    Do folks in this particular scenario have a "Current Residence Address"?
    I presumed the answer to that question was no.

    Block 2 of the form is where my beef is directed.

    LINK to 4473 : https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download

    2. Current Residence Address (U.S. Postal abbreviations are acceptable. Cannot be a post office box.



    ~Whitney
    One of the shelters in town offers offers what is essentially a maildrop service but government agencies that demand a residence address seem willing to accept it. XXXXX, Apartment (A thru ZZZZZ) City Street, City, State, ZIP If you can use that to get your non-driving ID card and bring the envelope from the nice folks that run the SNAP program or your voter registration card with that address I don't see how a FFL or ATFEIEIO could reject it.

    Do look up the legal difference berween "residence" and "domicile".

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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