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Thread: FBI handgun solicitation

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    FBI handgun solicitation

    https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportun...4962f&_cview=1

    FBI is interested in a large amount of 9mms. I found the requirements very interesting, and am curious everyone's take on the lack of some common safety options:

    1) Magazine safety not allowed. The pistol shall fire with the magazine removed and a live round in the chamber.
    2) Manual external safety not allowed. Only safeties which are disengaged by the rearward movement of the trigger are allowed (i.e., passive).
    3) Grip safety not allowed.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    They are hiring dumber and dumber people who have far more important things to learn about no profiling, sexual identification tolerance, and paperwork, than life-saving firearms training; and, oh yeah, because of kick-backs, we want Glocks.
    Last edited by MAC702; 11-01-2015 at 12:35 PM.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Magazine safeties are nothing new, they have been around for decades. ISP, and other IL agents were issued the S&W Model 39 with a magazine safety, officers were trained with them, specifically what to do in the case of a attempted gun snatch. IMO the safety was originally designed for numpties, and ND's, but the safety for a police officer is a life saver if the gun is snatched after the magazine has been dropped. It allows the officer to use backup options to survive, even regain control of the firearm. Most of us who carried the 39 carried varies backup, from knives, saps, baton, and of course bugs. This is not so much a problem for LAC as the gun snatch is very rare, but for the LEO it could save a life. FBI mocks the word intelligence.
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    They should have just wrote the specs to say that the side lettering has to say Glock gen 4 model 17.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    FBI except for uniformed officers carries compacts, probably the G19, or 26.

    Most agents never will need a firearm in the performance of their duties. The hype is based on a few incidents.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Regular Member Batousaii's Avatar
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    P226 ??

    I wonder why they didn't just go back to the P226? It seems to fit all those requirements, and is an excellent pistol.
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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    FBI except for uniformed officers carries compacts, probably the G19, or 26.

    Most agents never will need a firearm in the performance of their duties. The hype is based on a few incidents.
    Agreed.
    https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/bes...guard-new-gun/

    TOO New but the FBI has money (Our $$) to spend on testing and sorting out the bugs......
    Last edited by Marco; 11-04-2015 at 09:32 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    FBI except for uniformed officers carries compacts, probably the G19, or 26.

    Most agents never will need a firearm in the performance of their duties. The hype is based on a few incidents.
    i went through a few years back, phase I, II, PFT, interviews, poly etc. Ended up not getting in but every agent i ever spoke to said they had never drawn their firearm in the course of their duty (other than training)

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kopis View Post
    i went through a few years back, phase I, II, PFT, interviews, poly etc. Ended up not getting in but every agent i ever spoke to said they had never drawn their firearm in the course of their duty (other than training)
    You must have not spoke with Agent John Hanson:

    http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2003...-hotel-cooler/
    An FBI agent who fired two rounds into a walk-in cooler at a Strip hotel.
    Agent John Hanson III, who was in Las Vegas to attend an accounting seminar, was caught on surveillance cameras firing his .45-caliber handgun (Glock 21) into the walk-in cooler. Hanson has been an instructor at the FBI training academy in Quantico, Va.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


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    Now that untold thousands and thousands of tax dollars have been wasted on the .40 cal mistake, we get to pay again to get them a weapon they can use.
    The .40 was an answer to a question never asked. The market is flooded with "LEO Leftovers" in .40 as all the lemming Pee Dees followed the lead lemming over the cliff. A waste of my money.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    Now that untold thousands and thousands of tax dollars have been wasted on the .40 cal mistake, we get to pay again to get them a weapon they can use.
    The .40 was an answer to a question never asked. The market is flooded with "LEO Leftovers" in .40 as all the lemming Pee Dees followed the lead lemming over the cliff. A waste of my money.
    I don't think any round development is a mistake. Take a look at the 41 magnum, there is only .02 difference between it, and the 44 magnum where the .40 is .045 difference from the 9. Was the 41 mag a mistake, it also was a round developed for police officers. I am of the opinion that any round that pokes a hole deep enough to stop a threat is effective. So I don't worry about the things the FBI does, the problem with police officers is they depend on technology instead of skill. If they had a better hits to miss ratio they could carry a 22LR. Granted the ignition system on 22LR was more reliable. A 22 to the heart, or head can, and will stop a threat. A 10mm to the shoulder, lung, hand, arm will not do jack to stop a threat unless the threat wants to stop.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 11-14-2015 at 01:22 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    Now that untold thousands and thousands of tax dollars have been wasted on the .40 cal mistake, we get to pay again to get them a weapon they can use.
    The .40 was an answer to a question never asked. The market is flooded with "LEO Leftovers" in .40 as all the lemming Pee Dees followed the lead lemming over the cliff. A waste of my money.
    The .40 is just as good a caliber as many used in a LEO setting. At one time every caliber started out as the new kid on the block. The .40 is here to stay.


    The reason one sees all the 40cal LEO trade ins is that is has been on the market for around 25 years ago. Unlike personal weapons that can be/are kept by many for decades.


    LEO guns are tools worn every working day for years that alone takes a toll on them. A lot of them are getting old they get traded in for new ones.

    It hardly has anything to do with just caliber.

    Yes caliber is one of the consideration when selecting a new firearm. But there is really no different in a Glock 17 or a Glock 22 except caliber.

    When a department start seeing guns with problems showing up in the armorers hands on a regular basis it is time for new ones.

    That time period varies a lot.
    Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 11-15-2015 at 06:54 AM.
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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    You must have not spoke with Agent John Hanson:

    http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2003...-hotel-cooler/
    An FBI agent who fired two rounds into a walk-in cooler at a Strip hotel.
    Agent John Hanson III, who was in Las Vegas to attend an accounting seminar, was caught on surveillance cameras firing his .45-caliber handgun (Glock 21) into the walk-in cooler. Hanson has been an instructor at the FBI training academy in Quantico, Va.
    According to the police report, Hanson said he did not remember firing his Glock handgun. Officers cited Hanson with a misdemeanor, discharging a firearm, and released him.
    In other words, Hanson was drunk and was not charged accordingly.

    Now back to your regularly scheduled program.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    ...LEO guns are tools worn every working day for years that alone takes a toll on them. A lot of them are getting old they get traded in for new ones....
    At least that's the easiest argument to convince taxpayers that they need to spend more money.

    It's just coincidence that many of the replacements are in a caliber that's far easier to shoot well.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    In my opinion LEO guns are replaced because most LEO's now days are spoiled brats. I kept my issued handgun until I changed departments, drove the same car year after year. The first department I worked at I was assigned the chiefs 7 year old Galaxy 500 so he could get a new car. It was nothing unusual for ISP troopers to be driving the same car for several years. Back then Il agents, and troopers carried the model 39 for decades.

    Like soldiers in this modern day, if they whine enough they get a new toy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    They should have just wrote the specs to say that the side lettering has to say Glock gen 4 model 17.



    H&K VP9 is also a strong contender. Im sure it will be taken in to serious consideration.
    Last edited by crackersillo; 12-21-2015 at 04:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STLDaniel View Post
    am curious everyone's take on the lack of some common safety options:

    1) Magazine safety not allowed. The pistol shall fire with the magazine removed and a live round in the chamber.
    2) Manual external safety not allowed. Only safeties which are disengaged by the rearward movement of the trigger are allowed (i.e., passive).
    3) Grip safety not allowed.

    1)One may be doing a tactical reload during a firefight. During that reload it may become necessary to fire that round in the chamber. I for one don't want a magazine disconnect on my pistols and due to the fact that most don't have them I'd say I'm in the majority on that opinion. The theory about being able to pull the magazine out during a gun snatch sounds preposterous to me.

    2)I don't need a manual safety on a weapon that's carried secured in a holster. Unless I'm carrying a pistol in a pocket, or a 1911 in condition one what's the need for it? It's just something to forget to disengage during the high stress of needing to use lethal force. The only safety one needs is at the end of his hands! Keep your booger hooks off the trigger until ready to fire!

    3)Once again, unless I'm carrying a 1911 cocked & locked why do I need a grip safety? Most pistols are carried safely without them.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    1)One may be doing a tactical reload during a firefight. During that reload it may become necessary to fire that round in the chamber. I for one don't want a magazine disconnect on my pistols and due to the fact that most don't have them I'd say I'm in the majority on that opinion. The theory about being able to pull the magazine out during a gun snatch sounds preposterous to me.

    2)I don't need a manual safety on a weapon that's carried secured in a holster. Unless I'm carrying a pistol in a pocket, or a 1911 in condition one what's the need for it? It's just something to forget to disengage during the high stress of needing to use lethal force. The only safety one needs is at the end of his hands! Keep your booger hooks off the trigger until ready to fire!

    3)Once again, unless I'm carrying a 1911 cocked & locked why do I need a grip safety? Most pistols are carried safely without them.
    That feature is for police models. In a struggle if the mag is released the gun is useless to the BG. I have a police model like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    That feature is for police models. In a struggle if the mag is released the gun is useless to the BG. I have a police model like that.
    No that is not why magazine safeties were developed the 1935 browning hi power has one. It was design so it wouldn't fire with the mag removed no need to read anything else into it.

    Why because some one said that is what we want.

    Even it can work the way you described.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    1)
    3)Once again, unless I'm carrying a 1911 cocked & locked why do I need a grip safety? Most pistols are carried safely without them.
    Don't need one then either there are single action autos out their with out them.

    One of the most famous the Browning HI-power, John Browning answer to all that is wrong with the 1911 design.

    I own and shoot both years ago it was common for 1911 shooters to pin the grip safety down. The first browning design did not have it. He changed it to get the military contract.
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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Posted by color of law
    That feature is for police models. In a struggle if the mag is released the gun is useless to the BG. I have a police model like that.
    No that is not why magazine safeties were developed the 1935 browning hi power has one. It was design so it wouldn't fire with the mag removed no need to read anything else into it.

    Why because some one said that is what we want.

    Even it can work the way you described.
    S&W applied the feature on the M&P series to recapture the law enforcement segment of the market. The original reason for the design is irrelevant. Even Ayoob believes this feature has saved lives:
    What I HAVE run across a very few times over the decades has not yet been mentioned on this thread, or I've missed it: cases where the good guy accidentally hit his own mag release and deactivated his pistol when he needed to fire it. However, I've documented far more "saves" due to use of the "kill button effect" of the disconnector feature in struggles for the gun.
    http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-210230.html

    This is one of the reasons that Cincinnati police bought the M&P.

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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    S&W applied the feature on the M&P series to recapture the law enforcement segment of the market.
    This is a school of theory that police firearms instructors disagree on. All the ones that trained me fall on the side that you are better off being able to fire the weapon with the mag out. And I'm glad because I agree with them.

    I really like Smiths, especially the old 59 series, but I don't like that feature.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    This is a school of theory that police firearms instructors disagree on. All the ones that trained me fall on the side that you are better off being able to fire the weapon with the mag out. And I'm glad because I agree with them.

    I really like Smiths, especially the old 59 series, but I don't like that feature.
    I don't know of any that train you to drop the mag when your being attacked. Has it worked a couple of time I believe it has. Has it worked disable your attacker by any means necessary including shooting them, works more often then dropping your mag.

    Mag safeties are more a management decision than a firearms instructors decision Management see it has one more thing to stop something stupid from happening. And hearing the excuse I took the mag out so I thought it was empty.

    I own firearms with mag safeties, I own firearms that I have removed the mag safety, I own fire arms that never had them. I prefer my firearms not to have them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    S&W applied the feature on the M&P series to recapture the law enforcement segment of the market. The original reason for the design is irrelevant. Even Ayoob believes this feature has saved lives: http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-210230.html

    This is one of the reasons that Cincinnati police bought the M&P.

    A lot of police management wants them. I would suspect that is why Cincinnati went with a mag safety the biggest reason management likes them is they don't have to hear the excuse I thought it was empty I took the mag out.

    So few LEOs have been saved by dropping their mag the numbers are irrelevant in the over all scheme of things.

    Most street level LEOs could care less as long as their gun works when needed.

    The firearm guys don't see a need for them.

    Glock doesn't have one and it by far has the greatest share of the law enforcement market.
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    Divide and conquer, it is amusing to hear such from so senior an ex-cop.

    My closest LEO acquaintance has now declined Chief twice from his beginnings on the the street. When I first met him, he had just come off two years undercover.

    H. G. Rickover demonstrated well that the best management comes from off the shop floor, the street in this instance.
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