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Thread: Interesting debate in Michigan over OC v CC

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    Interesting debate in Michigan over OC v CC


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Workman View Post
    From the NY times.
    Interesting indeed.

    And a reminder, that all politics is local. What would be a major defeat in some jurisdictions, might be a modest little win in some others.

    I'm convinced most people never see my OC'd firearm. They just don't notice it. That includes carrying into my kids' schools pursuant to a permit that provides cover from federal and State GFSZ laws.

    But with the veto last year of similar legislation, Michigan may need a change in governors before they can hope for much better.

    Would that the courts would do the right thing regarding our RKBA and put an end to permits and non-secure off limits locations and the like.

    Charles
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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    Interesting indeed.

    And a reminder, that all politics is local. What would be a major defeat in some jurisdictions, might be a modest little win in some others.

    I'm convinced most people never see my OC'd firearm. They just don't notice it. That includes carrying into my kids' schools pursuant to a permit that provides cover from federal and State GFSZ laws.

    But with the veto last year of similar legislation, Michigan may need a change in governors before they can hope for much better.

    Would that the courts would do the right thing regarding our RKBA and put an end to permits and non-secure off limits locations and the like.

    Charles

    And that's the way it's supposed to be, right?

    Perhaps people who carry and don't get noticed move things in the direction you want to go a lot faster than people who turn the whole thing into a spectacle.

    As for ending permits altogether...keep thinking good thoughts.

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    Those "debates" usually go like this:

    A point is raised about the benefits of Open Carry. Usually starts with a common sense breakdown covering most of the bases from normalizing, to ease of access/draw time but generally centers around deterrence.

    Some CC-only elitist will jump in about making libtards "uncomfortable," the first to be shot, the "tactical advantage" and other nonsense based on 3 or 4 "incidents" over the past decade or whatever pops up on google when they search "open carrier robbed." Others will close ranks and stand by these arguments (exceptions) no matter how much logic is thrown at them (rule), complete with relentless personal attacks accusing OCers of being everything from flat out stupid, to rabidly biased.

    In their world the exceptions actually define the rule. It's insanity. They play right into the enemies hands.

    The only way to counter them is to open carry on!
    Last edited by Dario; 11-02-2015 at 07:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dario View Post
    Those "debates" usually go like this:

    A point is raised about the benefits of Open Carry. Usually starts with a common sense breakdown covering most of the bases from normalizing, to ease of access/draw time but generally centers around deterrence.

    Some CC-only elitist will jump in about making libtards "uncomfortable," the first to be shot, the "tactical advantage" and other nonsense based on 3 or 4 "incidents" over the past decade or whatever pops up on google when they search "open carrier robbed." Others will close ranks and stand by these arguments (exceptions) no matter how much logic is thrown at them (rule), complete with relentless personal attacks accusing OCers of being everything from flat out stupid, to rabidly biased.

    In their world the exceptions actually define the rule. It's insanity. They play right into the enemies hands.

    The only way to counter them is to open carry on!
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    And we are. Speaking as a parent and an OC'er, I myself prefer that people have to OC in schools. Not that criminals are going to follow the laws, they'll still conceal, but that I can walk into my sons school, and should I happen to see another person with a firearm, I can be fairly certain that it's a "good guy" and has a similar mindset about defense, protection and deterrence. Also, I think it's kinda stupid that schools don't want to know who has a gun on site, especially when it's the adults who freak out, not the kids.

    The bill is idiotic at best. It does nothing to prevent crime, and places a larger burden on the LAC's. It's only going through to provide some sort of "out of sight, out of mind" appeasement to the libtards in the state. The case in Ann Arbor will be overturned by the SSC, if it ever gets there. I'm sure they're to see what happens with this in order to make their decisions. If it passes, it's also going to render partly useless the MOC vs. CADL case.
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    Regular Member Nang pa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Workman View Post
    Isn't this the man who OC'd because OC was the only legal way to have his gun on school grounds, and not so much because he's an OC activist?

    IMO as long as lawfully carried firearms are allowed, I couldn't care less if it's CC only. That's just a dress code issue.
    Last edited by Nang pa; 01-24-2016 at 12:57 AM.
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    Regular Member Nang pa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    Interesting indeed.

    And a reminder, that all politics is local. What would be a major defeat in some jurisdictions, might be a modest little win in some others.

    I'm convinced most people never see my OC'd firearm. They just don't notice it. That includes carrying into my kids' schools pursuant to a permit that provides cover from federal and State GFSZ laws.

    But with the veto last year of similar legislation, Michigan may need a change in governors before they can hope for much better.

    Would that the courts would do the right thing regarding our RKBA and put an end to permits and non-secure off limits locations and the like.

    Charles
    Sort-of related:

    I was dealing with a chemical delivery last week and was with the driver for a half hour before noticing the Springfield on his hip. Here I am, no stranger to firearms, and I didn't even notice. I mentioned his sidearm, told him of the company policy against weapons (the driver was not an employee of my company, just there to make delivery), and suggested he pull his jacket over it, and that was the end of it.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nang pa View Post
    Isn't this the man who OC'd because OC was the only legal way to have his gun on school grounds, and not so much because he's an OC activist?

    IMO as long as lawfully carried firearms are allowed, I couldn't care less if it's CC only. That's just a dress code issue.
    Educating people and defense of self is not a dress code issue.
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    Regular Member Nang pa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Educating people and defense of self is not a dress code issue.
    I guess since I'm not an educator I wouldn't relate. IMO OC vs CC is just a dress code issue. As long as lawful carry is allowed it's not the hill I would die on.

    To each their own.
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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Well,,,

    Quote Originally Posted by Nang pa View Post
    I guess since I'm not an educator I wouldn't relate. IMO OC vs CC is just a dress code issue. As long as lawful carry is allowed it's not the hill I would die on.

    To each their own.
    You are Not quite seeing the point here...
    The Man in question was Not Allowed to CC, in a School, in his state, CC is Not allowed in schools...
    He is only Allowed to OC,, with a permit, in his childs school!!
    It is not a dress code issue,, it is a State law issue!
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    Regular Member Nang pa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    You are Not quite seeing the point here...
    The Man in question was Not Allowed to CC, in a School, in his state, CC is Not allowed in schools...
    He is only Allowed to OC,, with a permit, in his childs school!!
    It is not a dress code issue,, it is a State law issue!
    Isn't that what I said in post #7?

    The state wants to allow only OC in schools. I'm fine with that.
    Last edited by Nang pa; 01-24-2016 at 07:38 AM.
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    A happy client of his tyrant, so common-sensical.
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