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Thread: Something occurred to me while watching the news...

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Something occurred to me while watching the news...

    Police and the media refer to wannabe mass murderers who grab a gun and go shoot up a place as "active gunners" or "active shooters".

    This implies there is such a thing as a "passive shooter" in their world view. But you can't pull a trigger passively, so a passive shooter would have to be one that hasn't opened fire yet.

    If that IS how their thought processes are running, that would go a long way to explaining why police have an unfortunate tendency to confront peaceful open carriers at gunpoint.

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    Active-shooter is a neologism as ignorant as is proactive.
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Can we just call them Rapid Mass Murderers and be done with it?

    "Active shooter" seems to imply that the presence of uniformed professionals armed with guns is still needed.

    I offer the label of "fish food" to be used when the shooter is no longer active.

    stay safe.
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    "AR = Assault Rifle". No such thing, actually = Armalite Rifle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    Police and the media refer to wannabe mass murderers who grab a gun and go shoot up a place as "active gunners" or "active shooters".

    This implies there is such a thing as a "passive shooter" in their world view. But you can't pull a trigger passively, so a passive shooter would have to be one that hasn't opened fire yet.

    If that IS how their thought processes are running, that would go a long way to explaining why police have an unfortunate tendency to confront peaceful open carriers at gunpoint.
    Not a bad observation. Not bad at all.

    With that in mind, I suspect the modifier active is added because of cop jargon or lingo in malicious assault or murder cases. As in, "Detective John Doe thinks Thug Dealscoke is the shooter who killed informant Steve Bigmouth." Meaning, if shooter is cop jargon for the guy who fired the gun in past tense, it makes sense cops would distinguish somebody shooting in the present. Disclaimer: this is not to support how they chose to make the distinction.
    Last edited by Citizen; 11-04-2015 at 09:22 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    Police and the media refer to wannabe mass murderers who grab a gun and go shoot up a place as "active gunners" or "active shooters".
    "Active shooter" is police vernacular for a situation in the criminal is in the act of killing innocents. It is contrasted with an armed criminal who has taken hostages but is not currently killing anyone.

    The term arose following Columbine. The police rolled up on Columbine and did what they did for hostage situations: secure the perimeter, gather intel, and attempt to start negotiations to secure the release of hostages and the peaceful surrender of the criminal....or at least buy time for the SWAT team, sharp shooters, etc to get on scene. While this is an appropriate, restrained response to a hostage situation where evidence suggests a peaceful resolution may yet be possible, as we all recognize now, such a response is no response at all when a mass murderer is in the very act of running through his ammo.

    I understand from friends who are involved in LEO training that current best practice in an "active shooter" situation is for responding officers to engage the shooter as soon as possible. This stands in stark contrast to how officers respond to a hostage situation in which the criminal is not presently killing innocents.

    It is a term of art that the media has now picked up on and sometimes misuse.

    I suspect the frame of mind of media types is far more evident in what questions they do or don't ask than exactly what vernacular they use to describe mass murders. After all, even devoted supporters of RKBA sometimes slip into using anti-terms like "hi capacity magazines" or "assault rifles" just out of convenience.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post

    The term arose following Columbine. The police rolled up on Columbine and did what they did for hostage situations: secure the perimeter, gather intel, and attempt to start negotiations to secure the release of hostages and the peaceful surrender of the criminal....or at least buy time for the SWAT team, sharp shooters, etc to get on scene. While this is an appropriate, restrained response to a hostage situation where evidence suggests a peaceful resolution may yet be possible, as we all recognize now, such a response is no response at all when a mass murderer is in the very act of running through his ammo.
    I remember reading that the police killed more students in that situation than the alleged shooters in th e school.



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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    I remember reading that the police killed more students in that situation than the alleged shooters in th e school.
    Have never seen anything that would indicate any deaths were the direct result of police shots fired.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columb...chool_massacre

    Now if you are referring to the speed of officer's response or lack thereof being a contributing factor, then I would agree.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    Police and the media refer to wannabe mass murderers who grab a gun and go shoot up a place as "active gunners" or "active shooters".

    This implies there is such a thing as a "passive shooter" in their world view. But you can't pull a trigger passively, so a passive shooter would have to be one that hasn't opened fire yet.

    If that IS how their thought processes are running, that would go a long way to explaining why police have an unfortunate tendency to confront peaceful open carriers at gunpoint.
    I think the meaning of inactive gunner or inactive shooter is someone who is carrying but not using his handgun at the time and therefore not in need of police response or police action. The vast majority of people who carry have shoot for practice at the range . . . and if they are out in public with a handgun, at the time, they are temporarily inactive in a way that means the police need not respond.

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    I am a passively waiting irresponsible gun owner. Now what?

  12. #12
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    "active shooter" is code for shoot the first citizen with a gun, then ask questions later whether the citizen with the gun, we just shot, was actually the "active shooter."
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    "active shooter" is code for shoot the first citizen with a gun, then ask questions later whether the citizen with the gun, we just shot, was actually the "active shooter."
    Sounds like the kind of nonsense spewed by gun grabbers. "An armed citizen will just get himself killed by the responding police officers."

    I guess the cops in the most liberal and anti-gun city of Utah missed that memo. When a Bosnia and Herzegovina immigrant engaged in a mass murder at the Trolley Square shopping center in Salt Lake City in 2007, an off-duty, out-of-town, out-of-uniform police officer from Ogden (some 40 miles north of SLC) was the first person to confront the shooter. When the first on-duty Salt Lake City police officer arrived, he did not fire on the off-duty, out-of-uniform Ogden officer. Together they engaged the murderer until the full active shooter response team from SLC PD responded and put the feral dog down. (The FBI was never able to determine any motive for the shooting, but was certain it was not an act of terrorism. If one wants to believe such findings.)

    I believe that most police officers are well enough trained to recognize the difference between an active shooter (the guy shooting at innocent, unarmed, screaming people; and shooting at cops as well), and an armed LAC (the guy taking cover, NOT shooting at the cops or other innocent persons, perhaps engaging the bad guy). I think most LACs who exercise their RKBA are smart enough to understand how to avoid being targeted or shot by cops.

    Perhaps "some" around here disagree. Or they are just looking for any excuse to snipe at cops.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    I remember reading that the police killed more students in that situation than the alleged shooters in th e school.
    Citation?

    I read lots of tin-foil kind of stuff. But I don't believe most of it without some collaborating evidence.
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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