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Thread: Possibly moving to TX

  1. #1
    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Possibly moving to TX

    So i'm in the early stages of investigating a move down from Washington. I have a little knowledge and maybe that can be confirmed, plus some additional questions


    1) TX Does not recognise the WA permit, so I would have to get either Utah or Arizona as well

    2) I cannot OC without a permit even after Jan 16

    What I don't know is the following

    1) Will the out of state permit from AZ or UT become invalid as soon as I become a resident? If so what do I do between the time I get TX ID and get a TX permit?

    2) What will the new rules on vehicular carry be? this is both busses and driving. Legal to OC with a permit?

    3) Handgunlaw is a bit confusing as far as giving notice to an LEO.

    Must Inform Officer Immediately on Contact By Law?
    “YES”
    Sec. 411.205. Requirement to Display License.
    If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace
    officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license
    www.handgunlaw.us 8
    holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun
    license.

    This is not the same as immediately having to tell him you're armed. And the statute may be void as per US v Deberry

    4) what of private sales? Can this be a simple cash transfer or is there something like I594 there, where we are forced to use an FFL?
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

    "Any and all restrictions on the bearing of arms in public places are nullified as per the Second Amendment"

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Maybe I shouldn't even comment since I don't have the time to verify these things... But here's my experience anyway.

    1. Texas residents often get licenses from other states. Reasons vary but include lower cost, less ridiculous requirements, protesting our ridiculous licensing scheme, etc.

    2. You'll be able to open carry in a vehicle with a license. Without a license you cannot. On buses I have no clue - you mean like public transportation in certain cities? Or like Greyhounds?

    3. I think that you are understanding it correctly, it is different than a requirement to "announce". The statute has more to do with requiring to produce IDs if they're requested, and with producing both your DL and license at that time. For instance if you are pulled over for a traffic violation and are CCing and the officer requests your DL, the statute seems to suggest that you should give him both your DL and license to carry, even though he didn't specifically request the license to carry.

    4. People conduct private cash sales without an FFL.

    If you end up coming - here's an early "welcome to Texas"
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    Regular Member qednick's Avatar
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    I actually thought TX recognized ALL out of state CHL's??

    A recognized out of state permit is OK--even once you become a TX resident. TX has one of the (or *the*) most expensive licenses and it used to take forever to get. However, they're pretty fast now compared to the several months when I first got mine several years ago.

    Currently you can keep a loaded handgun in your vehicle so long as it is not visible. After Jan 1st, if you have a valid license to carry, you'll be able to have it visible so long as it's in a belt or shoulder holster.

    You can carry on buses though I'm not sure if, after Jan 1st, the bus companies will mandate they remain concealed (???).

    Not entirely sure on the statue but like Stealthy said, if you get pulled over or anything, ALWAYS present your DL and CHL at the same time. If at night, put your dome light on and keep hands on steering wheel. That basically tells the LEO that you're armed.

    Bought and sold many--especially through texasguntrader.com All you need is a valid TX ID and the seller will usually have you complete a firearms bill of sale where you state that you're eligible to buy. Whenever I've sold on that site, I usually say TX DL or CHL required but prefer to see a CHL. It's a great site and when you post something for sale they usually sell within one hour (literally!!!). Once I put something up for sale and started getting calls/texts immediately. The second caller couldn't believe that I had already sold it so fast (literally within minutes) and he kept sending me nasty emails for a week afterwards. In the end I emailed him back and said I was glad I hadn't sold him it because he obviously has anger management issues. I'm pretty fussy about who I sell to.

    What part of TX are you thinking of moving to?

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran ak56's Avatar
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    Texas DOES honor the Washington CPL, and you can continue to carry with it, even after becoming a Texas resident.

    My daughter and son-in-law just moved back to Washington after living in Texas for the last 6+ years. While there, my son-in-law carried on his Washington permit, even as a Texas resident. I've traveled down there yearly while they were there, and stayed current on Texas gun laws, and carried while there on my Washington CPL.
    No right is held more sacred, or is more carefully guarded, by the common law than the right of every individual to the possession and control of his own person, free from all restraint or interference of others, unless by clear and unquestionable authority of law. Union Pacific Rail Co. vs Botsford as quoted in Terry v Ohio.


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  5. #5
    Regular Member qednick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak56 View Post
    Texas DOES honor the Washington CPL, and you can continue to carry with it, even after becoming a Texas resident.

    ...
    Thanks! That's what I thought :-)

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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post

    2. You'll be able to open carry in a vehicle with a license. Without a license you cannot. On buses I have no clue - you mean like public transportation in certain cities? Or like Greyhounds?
    Local busses.

    Quote Originally Posted by qednick View Post

    You can carry on buses though I'm not sure if, after Jan 1st, the bus companies will mandate they remain concealed (???).


    What part of TX are you thinking of moving to?
    Surely illegal. TX has a powerful preemption statute. Even if it was a grey area I can see Open Carry Texas showing them who is boss by bringing 50 OCers on the bus on protest :P Incidentally I thought it was Jan 16 the law cam into effect.

    If I go anywhere it will be San Antonio. I'll have to give some of y'all a yell closer to the time as I intend to fly down and will likely need a reminder how to fly with a firearm without freaking out security and getting shot. But soon as I land in TX, the first thing i'm going to do is find a good place to remove the weapon from the case and start OCing. Thankfully I have a smartphone so can record any encounters I havw
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak56 View Post
    Texas DOES honor the Washington CPL, and you can continue to carry with it, even after becoming a Texas resident.

    My daughter and son-in-law just moved back to Washington after living in Texas for the last 6+ years. While there, my son-in-law carried on his Washington permit, even as a Texas resident. I've traveled down there yearly while they were there, and stayed current on Texas gun laws, and carried while there on my Washington CPL.
    Awesome!! That will give me time to go and get the required training under TX law and maybe under Jan Morgan herself. If y'all not heard of her, hang your head in shame :P
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by qednick View Post

    Currently you can keep a loaded handgun in your vehicle so long as it is not visible. After Jan 1st, if you have a valid license to carry, you'll be able to have it visible so long as it's in a belt or shoulder holster.
    This is correct. A vehicle doesn't change any other applicable laws, so currently it must be concealed. As of January 1st, if you are licensed you can only OC if it is in those, otherwise it MUST still be concealed. I think this is going to be an expensive surprise to those who think that they will be able to OC in a dash mount that still leaves a part of theming visible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    So i'm in the early stages of investigating a move down from Washington. I have a little knowledge and maybe that can be confirmed, plus some additional questions


    1) TX Does not recognise the WA permit, so I would have to get either Utah or Arizona as well

    2) I cannot OC without a permit even after Jan 16

    What I don't know is the following

    1) Will the out of state permit from AZ or UT become invalid as soon as I become a resident? If so what do I do between the time I get TX ID and get a TX permit?

    2) What will the new rules on vehicular carry be? this is both busses and driving. Legal to OC with a permit?

    3) Handgunlaw is a bit confusing as far as giving notice to an LEO.




    This is not the same as immediately having to tell him you're armed. And the statute may be void as per US v Deberry

    4) what of private sales? Can this be a simple cash transfer or is there something like I594 there, where we are forced to use an FFL?
    One point not yet answered is that you will no longer be able to get a UT license without first having a TX resident permit, and that's due to UT law changes not TX.
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  10. #10
    Regular Member qednick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    Local busses.



    Surely illegal. TX has a powerful preemption statute. Even if it was a grey area I can see Open Carry Texas showing them who is boss by bringing 50 OCers on the bus on protest :P Incidentally I thought it was Jan 16 the law cam into effect.

    If I go anywhere it will be San Antonio. I'll have to give some of y'all a yell closer to the time as I intend to fly down and will likely need a reminder how to fly with a firearm without freaking out security and getting shot. But soon as I land in TX, the first thing i'm going to do is find a good place to remove the weapon from the case and start OCing. Thankfully I have a smartphone so can record any encounters I havw
    Maybe but it doesn't seem to stop them sticking up the signs. Look at Houston and Dallas zoos. Hopefully those things will get resolved as time goes on. Incidentally, San Antonio airport has gun buster signs at the doors, but not 30.06 signs.

    Law comes into effect Jan 1st :-)

    I live in Bandera but commute to San Antonio every day for work. We will have to look at doing some OC meets after the new year. By the way, if you're looking for a good gun shop once you get here, check out Adelbridge Firearms on San Pedro Ave. just outside loop 410. The owner Jonathan and his staff are extremely knowledgeable and friendly and they have so much stock they're looking to find bigger premises. They also do gunsmithing, ceracote coatings, etc.

  11. #11
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glockster View Post
    One point not yet answered is that you will no longer be able to get a UT license without first having a TX resident permit, and that's due to UT law changes not TX.
    That is good to know, thanks for coming in to answer that one
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  12. #12
    Regular Member qednick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glockster View Post
    One point not yet answered is that you will no longer be able to get a UT license without first having a TX resident permit, and that's due to UT law changes not TX.
    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    That is good to know, thanks for coming in to answer that one
    I had actually forgotten about that law change. Aren't there other states that offer non-resident CHL's valid in TX without first having to have the TX CHL? I always thought Utah was popular because it's cheap and recognized by lots of other states.

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    You have to produce id (chl) if the officer demands you're drivers license but there is no penalty for not producing your chl anymore (but they know you have a chl when they run your license so be careful

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    Regular Member HPmatt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonSoul View Post
    but there is no penalty for not producing your chl anymore (but they know you have a chl when they run your license so be careful
    I would suspect they'll know you have a CHL if you are OC'ing after 1/1/16...
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    Quote Originally Posted by qednick View Post
    I had actually forgotten about that law change. Aren't there other states that offer non-resident CHL's valid in TX without first having to have the TX CHL? I always thought Utah was popular because it's cheap and recognized by lots of other states.
    Sure, there are in theory quite a few....but it's going to get complicated. For example, the OP has to find a state that will issue him in WA a non-resident permit. AND then he has to go through that list to find one of those non-resident permits that TX will recognize, as there is a difference in what TX recognizes as far as other state non-resident permits.

    You can begin the searching process on this site, for one example:
    http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_ca...city_maps.html


    Which brings up one thing -- OP said that TX doesn't recognize WA permit, but the above linked page shows that it is. And just to confirm that, checking the TX DPS site indicates that TX does in fact recognize WA permits unilaterally: http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/RSD/CHL/legal/reciprocity/
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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qednick View Post

    We will have to look at doing some OC meets after the new year.
    Yes we should do some OCing. I fully intend to OC by default. By the time I arrive I will have a firearm, several hard hitting political t-shirts and order in some no guns = no $$ cards. I'm quite sure places will try to put signs up and some in places where they have no right to like public places.

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    Last edited by rightwinglibertarian; 11-10-2015 at 04:40 AM.
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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonSoul View Post
    You have to produce id (chl) if the officer demands you're drivers license but there is no penalty for not producing your chl anymore (but they know you have a chl when they run your license so be careful

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    I have no drivers license so they will know nothing. Also OCing is not RAS to be detained as per US v Deberry so as soon as they stop me for it, they will have immediately violated my rights would they not? Federal case preeempts state law?

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    Regular Member qednick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    Yes we should do some OCing. I fully intend to OC by default. By the time I arrive I will have a firearm, several hard hitting political t-shirts and order in some no guns = no $$ cards. I'm quite sure places will try to put signs up and some in places where they have no right to like public places.

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    Well, I run a design/print shop so I should get together some no guns = no business cards ready for Jan 1st. :-)

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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qednick View Post
    Well, I run a design/print shop so I should get together some no guns = no business cards ready for Jan 1st. :-)
    what all do you do? shirts? Cards? mugs? Signs? I guess I opened this up so i'd love to see a website, even if you have to PM it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    I have no drivers license so they will know nothing. Also OCing is not RAS to be detained as per US v Deberry so as soon as they stop me for it, they will have immediately violated my rights would they not? Federal case preeempts state law?

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    You should know that if you carry in TX with any state permit, if you get asked for your ID you must produce your permit and either a DL or equivalent state issued ID card (that they issue in lieu of a DL). If you do not have a DL or that state DL equivalent ID, you cannot legally carry under any permit in TX. I'm not arguing their right or lack of right to stop you, but in the category of "you won't beat the ride" you would likely be arrested for unlawful carry of a firearm especially since before you carry in TX you were required to know that law. Just saying that your problem would be a whole lot bigger than arguing whether they have the right to demand that ID.

    Added: Just so that this conversation here doesn't go badly, please note the forum rule about not advocating breaking the law (for example, by saying that you would carry without the required by law ID).
    Last edited by Glockster; 11-10-2015 at 11:49 AM.
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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glockster View Post
    You should know that if you carry in TX with any state permit, if you get asked for your ID you must produce your permit and either a DL or equivalent state issued ID card (that they issue in lieu of a DL). If you do not have a DL or that state DL equivalent ID, you cannot legally carry under any permit in TX. I'm not arguing their right or lack of right to stop you, but in the category of "you won't beat the ride" you would likely be arrested for unlawful carry of a firearm especially since before you carry in TX you were required to know that law. Just saying that your problem would be a whole lot bigger than arguing whether they have the right to demand that ID.

    Added: Just so that this conversation here doesn't go badly, please note the forum rule about not advocating breaking the law (for example, by saying that you would carry without the required by law ID).
    I have a WA state ID and I will have a WA permit, which i'm told is valid in TX. This should suffice won't it?
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glockster View Post
    You should know that if you carry in TX with any state permit, if you get asked for your ID you must produce your permit and either a DL or equivalent state issued ID card (that they issue in lieu of a DL). If you do not have a DL or that state DL equivalent ID, you cannot legally carry under any permit in TX. I'm not arguing their right or lack of right to stop you, but in the category of "you won't beat the ride" you would likely be arrested for unlawful carry of a firearm especially since before you carry in TX you were required to know that law. Just saying that your problem would be a whole lot bigger than arguing whether they have the right to demand that ID.

    Added: Just so that this conversation here doesn't go badly, please note the forum rule about not advocating breaking the law (for example, by saying that you would carry without the required by law ID).
    What statute would a person violate by carrying a concealed (or unconcealed, after Jan 1st) handgun and a valid license to carry, but no driver license or other state issued ID?
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  23. #23
    Regular Member qednick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    what all do you do? shirts? Cards? mugs? Signs? I guess I opened this up so i'd love to see a website, even if you have to PM it.

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    We do flyers, biz cards, brochures, booklets, etc. We don't do shirts, mugs, or signs, but we have partners that we work with to get these done very reasonably. I've produced some OC stuff for TX members here before back in 2011 (I believe) to put in gun shops/ranges, etc. when we were trying to get OC passed back then. I'll PM you the web site.

  24. #24
    Regular Member qednick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    What statute would a person violate by carrying a concealed (or unconcealed, after Jan 1st) handgun and a valid license to carry, but no driver license or other state issued ID?
    News to me too. Isn't the CHL (or LTC as it's now called) issued by TX DPS and also classed as a valid government issued photo ID? I can only imagine having to also produce a driver's license if you're also operating a vehicle at the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    What statute would a person violate by carrying a concealed (or unconcealed, after Jan 1st) handgun and a valid license to carry, but no driver license or other state issued ID?
    The same one that requires them both today. Refer to the CHL Act (http://www.dps.texas.gov/InternetForms/Forms/CHL-16.pdf) which provides the requirement for carry both the CHL and either DL or DPS issued identification card (for those without a DL). And as crazy as it is, the DL is still required (or the DPS ID card) even though the CHL has your DL and has a picture. And nothing in the new OC law changes that.
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