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Thread: What do you do when someone false states you brandish a weapon

  1. #1
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    Question What do you do when someone false states you brandish a weapon

    On November 5th, 2015 between 3:30 and 4:00pm, my husband took my son to McDonalds to pick up his last check. In Nevada we are an Open Carry State, and we both practice our rights.

    The girl assisting my son could not find his last paycheck on the payroll list. She had called the manager to come over and further assist her. The manager excused the young lady and told her to take the book in the back. The manager candidly ignored my son and started taking customers' orders. While taking a customers order, she had turned to my son and said he was NOT going to get his last check until she gets the uniform back. With her abrupt tone my husband stepped in and told her that will not be a problem however when he comes back that she better have his check ready for him.

    While leaving my husband was talking to my son about not giving the uniform back if they do not have his last check. Upon walking out a customer walking in, said something to the effect “Don't shoot”. My husband had ignored the guy being he was being ignorant and busy talking to our son.

    4:17pm An officer had called Cody in regards to the incident, which caught us off guard. The officer explained that the manager of McDonalds had called and wanted my husband arrested for threatening her, and, banishing a weapon. My husband told the officer his side of what had occurred. At that time the officer asked if he could come to our house to take a statement. We had no issue with that.

    4:29pm The officer had called back and informed my husband that he was not coming to our house being the managers statement kept changing, and did not reflect what was on camera. According to the manager, the customer said he was going to shoot her. The customer did not stay around to take a witness statement but left his number. When the officer tried to call this "customer" several times, but was unsuccessful. He felt it was a waist of his time.

    I am just so upset about this. My husband is our sole provider and we have a child with T1D. If the manager accomplished what she set out to do, it would have ruined our family because, we are practicing our rights. Any advice on what I should do and who I should report this to?
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 11-11-2016 at 04:23 AM. Reason: fixed title, brandish not banish

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    Tina, many open carriers carry a recorder for just this reason. There are some miniature models that record continuously (i.e. record so many minutes or hours then overwrite the oldest audio).

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Immediately get corporate offices involved. McDonald's has no problems with us openly carrying and many managers will quickly back up the fact that we are no problem whatsoever. They WILL care, however, that this one lied to a police officer to attempt to get one in serious undeserved trouble.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    A recorder is a good idea.

    If there's any possibility whatsoever that they actually intended to follow through with their story and pressing charges, I'd not talk with the police. This video is pretty awesome in summing up why:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

    In this case, giving just a little to the police was enough, so it's a gray area and a risk you have to decide on, but the points in that video are well worth considering before hand.

    In response to brandishing in this particular case, informing the officer that you never once drew the firearm from the holster and request that the officer immediately retrieve all video surveillance that the store has, which should very quickly prove your statement true, and potentially follow that up with asking to press charges against the manager for making a false report against you, since the video evidence should show that. Since the video will support your statement, and his is a their word against yours, they'll have a pretty big incentive to agree to mutually drop charges.

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    Just noticed you said he already reviewed the videos and found it didn't match the managers statements. Might be worth asking to press the charges anyway for the false report if you're that upset about it.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Immediately get corporate offices involved. McDonald's has no problems with us openly carrying and many managers will quickly back up the fact that we are no problem whatsoever. They WILL care, however, that this one lied to a police officer to attempt to get one in serious undeserved trouble.
    Totally agree - go up the food chain. Do so callmly and politely.

    Let us know of the response you receive. Bet it is favorable to you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by STLDaniel View Post
    Just noticed you said he already reviewed the videos and found it didn't match the managers statements. Might be worth asking to press the charges anyway for the false report if you're that upset about it.
    Making a false statement to a police officer while he is conducting an investigation is a serious offense in some states. You may be able to visit your local magistrate (court officer who issues warrants) to swear out a warrant for the liar's arrest. Do not call the magistrate first! This just gives them the chance to talk you out of it. Just research your state law on making false statements to a police officer; and, gather any evidence like video if you can. If a misdemeanor was perpetrated, go to the magistrate, ask for a warrant, gently insist in the face of any attempts to deter you, and then swear out the warrant.

    If the magistrate flat refuses in the face of state law, file a formal complaint with the court.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    By now I'd guess that the receiving of the paycheck has passed from the crisis stage of life.

    Put all attitudes in the bottom of the sock drawer and concentrate of how to get that final check.

    An employer can hold it for some specified period of time to ensure the employee returns all company property. Then they can deduct the cost of the company property from the check. Realize this and concentrate on getting the full check over any feelings or anything else.

    As for the customer who filed the false police report - it seems the cops are not going to do anything. Your husband could file a lawsuit but that's expensive and not guaranteed to come out in his favor.

    Put all attitudes in the bottom of the sock drawer.

    stay safe.
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    Contact corporate - in writing. If it was a franchise location, also contact the franchise owner. Demand a copy of the video of the incident in question in writing (this assures the video is not destroyed). Note that the actions of the manager was "a civil rights violation attempt", specifically regarding the 2nd and 4th amendment to the Constitution. Insist that they immediately contact you to address this issue unless they wish to face legal action.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drsysadmin View Post
    Contact corporate - in writing. If it was a franchise location, also contact the franchise owner. Demand a copy of the video of the incident in question in writing (this assures the video is not destroyed). Note that the actions of the manager was "a civil rights violation attempt", specifically regarding the 2nd and 4th amendment to the Constitution. Insist that they immediately contact you to address this issue unless they wish to face legal action.
    There is no demanding. FOIA requests are not valid for private property owners and a private owner is under little to no burden to retain videos.

    There is also no "civil rights violation" - gun owners or those carrying are not a protected class.
    http://www.attorneys.com/discriminat...ected-classes/

    A polite letter requesting remedial action and stating how offended you were w/o empty, meaningless threats would get considerable more traction.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    After seeing many of these first time posts that seem to be incredible blow up. I with holding my judgment.
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  12. #12
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    After seeing many of these first time posts that seem to be incredible blow up. I with holding my judgment.
    True enough.
    Not being judgmental or even questioning the veracity of her story.

    Tina registered then spent then spent under 2 hours on OCDO - all before anyone responded. She might have viewed the replies w/o logging back in (just like the general public) and still have gained the benefit of our observations/advice.

    If nothing else, she gives us the chance to hone our skills.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    When the police call, hang up. Come to your door? Don't answer or open the door. They either had enough evidence to arrest, and in this case they would have arrested already, or they did not.

    Now by speaking the the cops you give them another opportunity to say that lying to the police occurred.

    How to handle it? Ignore it. Unless you are willing to accept being arrested and going to court.

    I had cops at my door yesterday, violating my notice of trespass and my recently filed no contact order.
    They did not get to speak to anyone as no one answered the door or talked to them.

    The only thing you should say to a cop might be: a) piss off b) I will not speak w/o a lawyer ... you can say both in one sentence? Then do so.

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Get a recorder, audio is good... audio and video is even better... use it every minute you are OCing in public (and I do mean every minute) then download and keep the recordings just in case someone comes to complain or arrest days later. Why video? Not only does it put a face onto the voice but while video shows what happened it also shows what didn't happen.

    I understand that the original poster has a tight budget yet spending a little for a recorder could result in saving thousands in attorney fees... so here is a small video/audio camera...

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ilpage_o01_s00
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    There is no demanding. FOIA requests are not valid for private property owners and a private owner is under little to no burden to retain videos.
    <snip>
    99.9% of time this is correct and is certainly correct with this company. But if a company is considered to be a quasi-public agency then you can demand records from them under many state's FOIA / Sunshine laws.

    One can always ask, get denied, and begin the appeal process under the FOIA Act appeal processes of that state.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 11-07-2015 at 07:54 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    .



    An employer can hold it for some specified period of time to ensure the employee returns all company property. Then they can deduct the cost of the company property from the check. Realize this and concentrate on getting the full check over any feelings or anything else.

    stay safe.
    An employer cannot hold your check for any reason, they also cannot deduct any amount from your check for specific uniforms that they require you to wear.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcbrad98 View Post
    An employer cannot hold your check for any reason, they also cannot deduct any amount from your check for specific uniforms that they require you to wear.
    Cite please.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    I'll work on the federal cite, but here are the relevant Nevada cites:

    NRS 608.020  Discharge of employee: Immediate payment.  Whenever an employer discharges an employee, the wages and compensation earned and unpaid at the time of such discharge shall become due and payable immediately.
    [Part 2:71:1919; 1919 RL p. 2776; NCL § 2776]
    NRS 608.030  Payment of employee who resigns or quits employment.  Whenever an employee resigns or quits his or her employment, the wages and compensation earned and unpaid at the time of the employee’s resignation or quitting must be paid no later than:
    1.  The day on which the employee would have regularly been paid the wages or compensation; or
    2.  Seven days after the employee resigns or quits,
    whichever is earlier.

    NRS 608.040  Penalty for failure to pay discharged or quitting employee.
    1.  If an employer fails to pay:
    (a) Within 3 days after the wages or compensation of a discharged employee becomes due; or
    (b) On the day the wages or compensation is due to an employee who resigns or quits,
    the wages or compensation of the employee continues at the same rate from the day the employee resigned, quit or was discharged until paid or for 30 days, whichever is less.

    NRS 608.165  Special uniforms, accessories and cleaning to be furnished without cost to employee.  All uniforms or accessories distinctive as to style, color or material shall be furnished, without cost, to employees by their employer. If a uniform or accessory requires a special cleaning process, and cannot be easily laundered by an employee, such employee’s employer shall clean such uniform or accessory without cost to such employee.

    I hope that clears it up.

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    The Fair Labor Standards Act offers federal protections against the unlawful withholding of an employee paycheck. Employers are permitted to make lawful deductions from a final paycheck, but must also include all due overtime and wages pay. Violations of these rules could result in significant civil or criminal penalties for the employer, and federal Wage and Hour Division agents are free to conduct an investigation into employer compliance at any time.

    Failure to Remit Final Paycheck
    The federal Department of Labor is responsible for protecting employees from the unlawful withholding of a paycheck. The Department recommends employees facing this issue to contact the local office of the federal Wage and Hour Division for further assistance. The Wage and Hour Division is also responsible for overseeing the payment of back wages and can bring a lawsuit against the employer along with the Secretary of Labor.

    Enforcement Procedures
    Employees are covered under the federal Fair Labor Standards Act from unlawful withholding of paychecks. The FLSA permits investigators across the nation to gather data on wages, hours, and other employment conditions or practices, in order to determine compliance with the law. If an employer is unlawfully withholding pay, it could face fines up to $10,000, criminal sanctions or imprisonment. Willful or repeat violators of wage laws face additional fines up to $1,100 per violation.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Good cite ^ ^ ^ thank you.

    Now all who read it will have the resource - that is the point = education.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Sorry, having run businesses and having employees for years, I thought it was common knowledge.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    sry, am i to late to wave goodbye to the drive by poster?

    ipse
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    I'm also sort of late to the gathering of minds. For the OP if she is still around: please get your terminology correct. Banishing is not the same as Brandishing. Words have specific meanings. If you were typing on a system that has autocorrect enabled, please proofread before you share it in public.

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    Last edited by SW40VE-OC; 11-08-2015 at 12:50 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SW40VE-OC View Post
    I'm also sort of late to the gathering of minds. For the OP if she is still around: please get your terminology correct. Banishing is not the same as Brandishing. Words have specific meanings. If you were typing on a system that has autocorrect enabled, please proofread your share it in public.

    Sent from my XT1058 using Tapatalk
    Possibly others could as well....at least the proof reading part even if "autocorrect" is not enabled! LOL
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    By now I'd guess that the receiving of the paycheck has passed from the crisis stage of life.

    Put all attitudes in the bottom of the sock drawer and concentrate of how to get that final check.

    An employer can hold it for some specified period of time to ensure the employee returns all company property. Then they can deduct the cost of the company property from the check. Realize this and concentrate on getting the full check over any feelings or anything else.

    As for the customer who filed the false police report - it seems the cops are not going to do anything. Your husband could file a lawsuit but that's expensive and not guaranteed to come out in his favor.

    Put all attitudes in the bottom of the sock drawer.

    stay safe.
    Check your state's laws about final checks. Some states it is legal to withhold a final check until uniforms are returned, some it is is legal to deduct the cost of uniform from final paycheck, others you have buy your own uniform in the first place ao they have no right ro demand the "return" of a uniform, and yet other states it is all based on agreed upon policies that were signed when hired provided that said policies gave notice about returning of uniform(s).

    Like Skid pointed out, get that final paycheck. My caveat is that you play by the letter of the law. One does not have to play nice to play legally. Might become a civil case against manager that could be #X amount owed. The false police statement would be icing on the cake in showing that the manager was dishonest the whole time.

    BTW make sure you get a receipt for the returned uniform otherwise it might never be returned even after you have given it back.

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    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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