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Thread: South Carolina still does not allow the open carry of handguns

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    South Carolina still does not allow the open carry of handguns

    See open carry by state map at http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=103; note, in California, unlicensed open carry of loaded firearms is still allowed in "unincorporated areas where the County has not banned all shooting," i.e., most of California's land mass.

    http://www.postandcourier.com/articl...south-carolina

    SNIP

    South Carolina is halfway to adopting an open carry bill in which individuals would not need a permit to carry a gun with them in public. The measure passed the House last session but still must be adopted by the Senate where it faces some opposition.

    Supporters say the bill is good for responsible gun owners. They would still have to keep their weapons hidden from view, but they would not have to take a gun training course for what many consider a constitutional right.

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    If I recall correctly, Sen. Bright has proforma introduced such a bill in every session since about 1996 when SC got the Law Abiding Citizens Self-Defense Act of 1996. It has always, so far, failed, died in session.

    I believe that it will always fail until the Pay for Permits trainers' hegemony is broken. It will fail until Gun Owners of South Carolina is defeated.
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    16-23-20 Unlawful Carrying of Handgun; Exceptions.
    It is unlawful for anyone to carry about the person any handgun, whether concealed or not, except as follows, unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law:
    snip...

    (4) licensed hunters or fishermen who are engaged in hunting or fishing or going to or from their places of hunting or fishing while in a vehicle or on foot;

    snip...

    (8) a person in his home or upon his real property or a person who has the permission of the owner or the person in legal possession or the person in legal control of the home or real property;
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

    μολὼν λαβέ

    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
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    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    http://www.postandcourier.com/articl...south-carolina

    SNIP

    South Carolina is halfway to adopting an open carry bill in which individuals would not need a permit to carry a gun with them in public. ...

    They would still have to keep their weapons hidden from view, but they would not have to take a gun training course ....
    This does not make sense. First it talks about OC w/o a permit. Then it talks about needing to keep the gun "hidden from view", but not needing to take a training course. What the heck is the bill??? Reading the whole original article does not clear it up.

    FWIW the accompanying poll is 83% for, 17% against and 0% no opinion for carrying w/o a permit.

    With TX having gone for permitted OC and FL most likely to go for it either due to the Norman case before the FL Supreme Court or due to legislation, that leaves only SC as a pro-2nd A state that does not allow OC of some form. SC folk need to step up to politically pressure their legislators to pass pro-OC legislation and get their governor to sign off on it.
    Last edited by Paladin4CA; 01-02-2016 at 08:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paladin4CA View Post
    [ ... ] SC folk need to step up to politically pressure their legislators to pass pro-OC legislation and get their governor to sign off on it.
    South Carolina is firmly in the grip of the P4P hegemony. SC will not get Constitutional Carry, or even OC, until there is no profit to be made from selling dispensations from the infringement of the Second Amendment.

    scfirearms.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    South Carolina is firmly in the grip of the P4P hegemony. SC will not get Constitutional Carry, or even OC, until there is no profit to be made from selling dispensations from the infringement of the Second Amendment.
    This does not make sense re. OC. TX just went for permitted OC. Why should the P4P folks oppose that?

    First things first: win OC of some sort. Getting even permitted OC is a major step in the right direction. Later you can try to fight against the P4P folks and go for Con Carry. Win what you can win when you can win it.

    Why do I bring permitted OC up? Because in the past few days I read an article (I think it was in the NYT), re. TX going for permitted OC, and they used NY and CA as examples of other "big" states (I guess populous), that are against OC and used SC as an example of a Southern state against it. Of course the article did not mention that other than IL and FL (and Wash D.C.), every other state allows OC: that would encourage readers to look into OCing in their own states....

    Last edited by Paladin4CA; 01-03-2016 at 12:29 AM.

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    What does P4P stand for but Profit For Permits. In SC it is rice-bowl politics. Certain unnamed national organizations and their state assilliates profit from sales of permits. The grassroots gun rights organization was stifled by legal action by the state assilliate.
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    what functional grass roots entity does SC have to promote any firearm political activities?

    http://www.scfirearms.org/ apparently died a horrible death in 2011

    https://palmettogunrights.org/about/...ss-roots-works also apparently died a horrible death in 2011

    http://www.gosc.org/ mouth piece of the NRA quote: Your NRA State Association unquote \


    ok, mate, david, nightmare, color of law, et al., when are you going set up shop in the state to str8en this country politicians out and get appropriate firearm privileges for the good citizens of SC?

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 01-03-2016 at 10:11 AM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    What does P4P stand for but Profit For Permits.
    Okay.... So?

    To repeat myself, why should they be against permitted OC, like what just happened in TX? If anything, permitted OC will open a whole new "market" for making "Profits For Permits".

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    In SC it is rice-bowl politics. Certain unnamed national organizations and their state assilliates profit from sales of permits.
    Instead of the tin-foil hattery, why don't you name these "national organizations" and their state "assilliates" [sic]???

    Explain how these private organizations profit when the state of SC, not them, sells a concealed carry permit? How about some links to back up your assertions too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    The grassroots gun rights organization was stifled by legal action by the state assilliate.
    What "legal action"? Where was this "legal action" filed: state or federal court? what state or federal district? What cause of action? What was the disposition? Was it appealed? Links to injunctions/lawsuits/opinions/holdings/etc?
    Last edited by Paladin4CA; 01-03-2016 at 12:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    what functional grass roots entity does SC have to promote any firearm political activities?

    http://www.scfirearms.org/ apparently died a horrible death in 2011

    https://palmettogunrights.org/about/...ss-roots-works also apparently died a horrible death in 2011
    What "horrible" deaths? Link to info re. their "deaths"? I couldn't find any on the links you provided.
    Last edited by Paladin4CA; 01-03-2016 at 11:47 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paladin4CA View Post
    What "horrible" deaths? Link to info re. their "deaths"? I couldn't find any on the links you provided.
    palmetto's home page: Copyright 2011 Palmetto Gun Rightslam

    Palmetto Gun Rights is organized as a 501 (c)(4) non-profit,....
    SC Sec of State site:
    PALMETTO GUN RIGHTS
    DOMESTIC / FOREIGN: Domestic
    STATUS: Expired
    STATE OF INCORPORATION SOUTH CAROLINA
    ORGANIZATION: Profit
    or

    PALMETTO GUN RIGHTS, LLC
    DOMESTIC / FOREIGN: Domestic
    STATUS: Good Standing
    STATE OF INCORPORATION SOUTH CAROLINA
    ORGANIZATION: Profit


    Grassroots SC
    March 6, 2011:

    PLEASE TAKE ACTION NOW!


    sorry four + years since last information posted? nothing updated except generic BS....a dead domain is a horrible thing to waste when you do not have citizens OC'g.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    palmetto's home page: Copyright 2011 Palmetto Gun Rightslam

    Palmetto Gun Rights is organized as a 501 (c)(4) non-profit,....
    SC Sec of State site:
    PALMETTO GUN RIGHTS
    DOMESTIC / FOREIGN: Domestic
    STATUS: Expired
    STATE OF INCORPORATION SOUTH CAROLINA
    ORGANIZATION: Profit
    or

    PALMETTO GUN RIGHTS, LLC
    DOMESTIC / FOREIGN: Domestic
    STATUS: Good Standing
    STATE OF INCORPORATION SOUTH CAROLINA
    ORGANIZATION: Profit


    Grassroots SC
    March 6, 2011:

    PLEASE TAKE ACTION NOW!


    sorry four + years since last information posted? nothing updated except generic BS....a dead domain is a horrible thing to waste when you do not have citizens OC'g.

    ipse
    I do not know what to make of your post. PGR seems like it is "non-profit" for Fed. tax purposes, but for profit for state tax purposes. Does that make sense?

    Either way, is/was it one of Nightmare's hated P4P groups? If so, shouldn't you be happy it is gone?

    Is SCFirearms another hated P4P group? Or is/was it a good gun group?

    Regardless, other than the NRA, who is likely to push for OC in SC? It doesn't seem like there are many active SC members here on OCDO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paladin4CA View Post
    I do not know what to make of your post. PGR seems like it is "non-profit" for Fed. tax purposes, but for profit for state tax purposes. Does that make sense?

    Either way, is/was it one of Nightmare's hated P4P groups? If so, shouldn't you be happy it is gone?

    Is SCFirearms another hated P4P group? Or is/was it a good gun group?

    Regardless, other than the NRA, who is likely to push for OC in SC? It doesn't seem like there are many active SC members here on OCDO.
    5 year of inactivity doesn't lend itself to promoting anything...so i would have to say...

    UH NOBODY!!!

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Why do so many people want to fight for less, then are surprised when they get nothing?
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paladin4CA View Post
    Regardless, other than the NRA, who is likely to push for OC in SC? It doesn't seem like there are many active SC members here on OCDO.
    Are you confused, to include the NRA as "likely to push for OC in SC?"

    Here is an excerpt of their mission from another gun site: "gosc.org - GOSC is dedicated to the protection and promotion of the law-abiding citizen's constitutionally guaranteed right to own, bear and use firearms for hunting, target shooting, protection of family, self and home, collecting and all other lawful purposes."

    Note that their mission is accomplished while regular open carry is prohibited. Here is the South Carolina NRA affiliate's complete bylaws.

    http://gosc.org/gosc-bylaws-2011.pdf

    South Carolina will not have Constitutional Carry or even legal regular open carry while the P4P hegemony remains. Good people ought to be armed as they will, with wits and guns and The Truth.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paladin4CA View Post
    [ ... ]It doesn't seem like there are many active SC members here on OCDO.
    What is an active SC member?

    I lived in SC for thirty years and became an active member of GRGRSC shortly after its founding, coincident with my retirement. I joined the NRA and qualified as required by SC law as a prerequisite to SC state qualification as CWP instructor. I publicly questioned the propriety (the 'properness' in principle) of naming a private membership organization as a beneficiary of SC statute law.

    Shortly a GOSC member Looney brought legal action stifling GRGRSC. After ten years of struggle to incrementally elevate gun rights in SC, all of the principals of GRGRSC that I know have retired from the public eye. I left SC for Gold Star OC Wisconsin.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 01-09-2016 at 06:13 PM. Reason: Naming names
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Why do so many people want to fight for less, then are surprised when they get nothing?
    It's called winning the battles you can win when you can win them, rather than fighting a battle you can't win and thus wasting time, money, and/or effort for nothing.

    Fight for *permitted* OC now, with the P4P folks as allies. Win that. THEN, if it looks winnable, fight for unpermitted OC or ConCarry. If you don't win either of those, at least you will have won OC of some sort (i.e., permitted OC), as you continue the fight to advance your RKBA.

    Win what you can when you can. "Lather. Rinse. Repeat" until you win ConCarry.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paladin4CA View Post
    It's called winning the battles you can win when you can win them, rather than fighting a battle you can't win and thus wasting time, money, and/or effort for nothing.

    Fight for *permitted* OC now, with the P4P folks as allies. Win that. THEN, if it looks winnable, fight for unpermitted OC or ConCarry. If you don't win either of those, at least you will have won OC of some sort (i.e., permitted OC), as you continue the fight to advance your RKBA.

    Win what you can when you can. "Lather. Rinse. Repeat" until you win ConCarry.
    Yea that is why SC has OC right?

    Gays did not get where they are by fighting for less than respect, and their rights. Theirs is an example in success by not compromising. If you start out asking for less, you will get even more less, or nothing. It is the most incompetent way of petitioning government for our rights back.

    The road to gun control is paved with compromise.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Are you confused, to include the NRA as "likely to push for OC in SC?"
    Do you have some quote w/link to a news article or their own website stating that they are against OC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Here is an excerpt of their mission from another gun site: "gosc.org - GOSC is dedicated to the protection and promotion of the law-abiding citizen's constitutionally guaranteed right to own, bear and use firearms for hunting, target shooting, protection of family, self and home, collecting and all other lawful purposes."

    Note that their mission is accomplished while regular open carry is prohibited.
    Without going to the .pdf you attached of their Bylaws, but just by your quote of it, I could equally justifiably say that their mission is accomplished with OCing while CCing is prohibited.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    South Carolina will not have Constitutional Carry or even legal regular open carry while the P4P hegemony remains.
    As I wrote previously in response to one of your post:

    Quote Originally Posted by Paladin4CA View Post
    Okay.... So?

    To repeat myself, why should they be against permitted OC, like what just happened in TX? If anything, permitted OC will open a whole new "market" for making "Profits For Permits".
    Why not work w/the NRA and GOSC to push for permitted OC??? That way SC will at least have some type of OCing (green on the OCDO map I posted above). From there SCians can push for the next step to unpermitted OC (yellow on the OCDO map I posted above).

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Yea that is why SC has OC right?

    Gays did not get where they are by fighting for less than respect, and their rights. Theirs is an example in success by not compromising. If you start out asking for less, you will get even more less, or nothing. It is the most incompetent way of petitioning government for our rights back.

    The road to gun control is paved with compromise.
    You obviously are uninformed as to the history of the Gay Rights movement. They are the PERFECT example of creeping incrementalism: getting out of the DSM by the APA; being allowed to be teachers; decriminalization; adoption rights; domestic partners; and then EVENTUALLY, pushing for full marriage equality.

    The fought for and won what they could when they could. They went for the "half-loaf" and then always came back for the rest. That's what "principled" gun owners need to learn.
    Last edited by Paladin4CA; 01-10-2016 at 01:49 PM.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Why not push for constitutional carry?

    One should not haggle for rights, but if you are going to haggle, know how to haggle. I would imagine some that use the compromise excuse would haggle for and pay twice the sticker price for a used car once they are done. And that is exactly what they have done for our rights. And then they think the answer is to beg for more tyranny.

    It makes me wonder whether their intentions are to sabotage any attempts at freedom to begin with.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 01-10-2016 at 01:48 PM.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
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    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    What is an active SC member?
    A member of OCDO who's location shows them as living in SC and is actively posting in OCDO's SC subform. I'm in CA and ALL of the other posters in this thread do NOT even live in SC (Mike: VA; Nightmare: WI; The Truth: VA; solus: NC; and Walking wolf: NC). Since there's really no active SC members in OCDO's SC subform, posting in it to encourage them to push for OC is pointless and a waste of my ever limited time and effort.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Shortly a GOSC member Looney brought legal action stifling GRGRSC.
    As I wrote to you previously,

    Quote Originally Posted by Paladin4CA View Post
    What "legal action"? Where was this "legal action" filed: state or federal court? what state or federal district? What cause of action? What was the disposition? Was it appealed? Links to injunctions/lawsuits/opinions/holdings/etc?
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    After ten years of struggle to incrementally elevate gun rights in SC, all of the principals of GRGRSC that I know have retired from the public eye. I left SC for Gold Star OC Wisconsin.
    Being in CA (aka "The People's Republik of Mexifornia"), I can sympathize....

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Why not push for constitutional carry?
    Because Nightmare wrote,

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    If I recall correctly, Sen. Bright has proforma introduced such a bill in every session since about 1996 when SC got the Law Abiding Citizens Self-Defense Act of 1996. It has always, so far, failed, died in session.

    I believe that it will always fail until the Pay for Permits trainers' hegemony is broken. It will fail until Gun Owners of South Carolina is defeated.
    I'm suggesting, instead of fighting against the antis (to all RKBA) and GOSC by going for unpermitted OC (or ConCarry), and FAILING, which seems to be the current status quo, why not go for permitted OC and fight with GOSC against the antis?

    Then, once you've got that "win" under your belt, go for whatever SC gunnies think is the next winnable goal. IMO, that would probably be unpermitted OC. And then after that, ConCarry.

    It has take the NRA 30 years to get CCWing to where it is today and we still do not have Shall Issue in 8 states. Rome was not built in a day....

    http://www.gun-nuttery.com/rtc.php
    Last edited by Paladin4CA; 01-10-2016 at 02:11 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paladin4CA View Post
    A member of OCDO who's location shows them as living in SC and is actively posting in OCDO's SC subform. I'm in CA and ALL of the other posters in this thread do NOT even live in SC (Mike: VA; Nightmare: WI; The Truth: VA; solus: NC; and Walking wolf: NC). Since there's really no active SC members in OCDO's SC subform, posting in it to encourage them to push for OC is pointless and a waste of my ever limited time and effort.
    Anyway, just to tag onto this, since NO OCDO members who indicate their current location as being in SC have posted, I'll gracefully bow out from this thread and just hope that SC pushes for and wins some sort of OCing since they are the only remaining state (assuming FL gets OC legislatively or judicially this year), that can win OC legislatively IMO.

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    You can do your own research, and lead your own band, from California with y'alls' exemplary record.
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