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Thread: Man accused of killing fisherman will claim self-defense.

  1. #1
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    Man accused of killing fisherman will claim self-defense.

    A fisherman was killed after a yelling match between a group of people and a fisherman on the other side of the StCroix river. The accused is from Minnesota.The defense lawyer will claim Wisconsin's castle doctrine to justify the shooting. I am flabbergasted! The lawyer is going to claim that the fisherman from the other side of the river posed a threat to his client! Besides even if the fisherman was on the same side, how can the castle doctrine be applied when the accuser was being inflammatory? The lawyer probably means Stand your ground law in public.
    Castle doctrine: allows a person certain permissions to protect their home (or “castle”) using force, including deadly force.

    Stand your ground:is a law that authorizes a person to protect and defend one's own life and limb against threat or perceived threat. This law states that an individual has no duty to retreat from any place he/she has a lawful right to be and may use any level of force, including lethal, if he/she reasonably believes he/she faces an imminent and immediate threat of serious bodily harm or death; this is as opposed to duty to retreat laws.

    There is a difference between the two though both apply on your 'private property'.

    We shall see....

    http://www.piercecountyherald.com/ne...nse-when-trial

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    Well, you have to present some defense. Beats me if he'll beat the rap.

    I would not find him guilty myself. From what I have read which is limited.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    It is a "No Duty to Retreat" law. Those against our rights to self-defense call it a "Stand Your Ground" law. Don't help them with those negative connotations.

    It sounds as if he is arguing Castle Doctrine, though, but will have to demonstrate how a man on the other side of the river is manifesting this under the state laws. This is jurisdictionally quite interesting!
    Last edited by MAC702; 11-11-2015 at 06:07 PM.
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Just how wide is the river at that point?

    Among a zillion and a half other pieces of information missing to be able to make sense of this.

    stay safe.
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    LEO always seem to claim self defense when they murder someone. Errrr, I mean 'defend' themselves.

    Good for goose, good for gander?
    Last edited by Dave_pro2a; 11-12-2015 at 12:24 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Just how wide is the river at that point?

    Among a zillion and a half other pieces of information missing to be able to make sense of this.

    stay safe.
    Used to live in Balsam Lake two years ago. St. Croix is pretty narrow, 100-300 feet wide, maybe less in spots. Balsam Lake is county seat of Polk County. River very scenic south of St. Croix Falls, less so north.

    Yeah, the story really doesn't tell you any info needed to determine much. First I've heard of it. I don't see how you would be in much danger from someone on the other side of the river, EXCEPT from gun fire.

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    Founder's Club Member bnhcomputing's Avatar
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    Castle Doctrine ~may~ apply

    Wisconsin castle doctrine includes the vehicle. Articles on the net imply there was a confrontation, and both parties were in the same parking area. As the accused was trying to leave in his vehicle, the decedent attempted to forcibly enter the vehicle.

    Interestingly, the Castle Doctrine was not designed to be "used as a defense." Rather, it was supposed to shift the burden of proof BACK to the state in a claim of self defense, and then hold the individual harmless in civil court should he/she be found not criminally liable.

    So the defense is really "self defense" and they are invoking the Castle Doctrine to ensure the state has to prove quilt, rather than the accused needing to prove innocence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bnhcomputing View Post
    Wisconsin castle doctrine includes the vehicle. Articles on the net imply there was a confrontation, and both parties were in the same parking area. As the accused was trying to leave in his vehicle, the decedent attempted to forcibly enter the vehicle.

    Interestingly, the Castle Doctrine was not designed to be "used as a defense." Rather, it was supposed to shift the burden of proof BACK to the state in a claim of self defense, and then hold the individual harmless in civil court should he/she be found not criminally liable.

    So the defense is really "self defense" and they are invoking the Castle Doctrine to ensure the state has to prove quilt, rather than the accused needing to prove innocence.
    I think that self defense is an implied defense that the state always has to overcome; it is not an "affirmative defense".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    A fisherman was killed after a yelling match between a group of people and a fisherman on the other side of the StCroix river. The accused is from Minnesota.The defense lawyer will claim Wisconsin's castle doctrine to justify the shooting. I am flabbergasted! The lawyer is going to claim that the fisherman from the other side of the river posed a threat to his client! Besides even if the fisherman was on the same side, how can the castle doctrine be applied when the accuser was being inflammatory? The lawyer probably means Stand your ground law in public.
    Castle doctrine: allows a person certain permissions to protect their home (or “castle”) using force, including deadly force.

    Stand your ground:is a law that authorizes a person to protect and defend one's own life and limb against threat or perceived threat. This law states that an individual has no duty to retreat from any place he/she has a lawful right to be and may use any level of force, including lethal, if he/she reasonably believes he/she faces an imminent and immediate threat of serious bodily harm or death; this is as opposed to duty to retreat laws.

    There is a difference between the two though both apply on your 'private property'.

    We shall see....

    http://www.piercecountyherald.com/ne...nse-when-trial
    The altercation that occurred resulted in the decedent being stabbed to death and not shot as your above post claims.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky View Post
    The altercation that occurred resulted in the decedent being stabbed to death and not shot as your above post claims.
    Easy assumption to make consider the OP left out that information while posting on a firearms board about someone claiming defense from a guy on another side of a river.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Easy assumption to make consider the OP left out that information while posting on a firearms board about someone claiming defense from a guy on another side of a river.
    My post is true and factual. Do the research and you may be a more informed individual.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    I missed that you were correcting the OP. My mistake.
    Last edited by MAC702; 11-15-2015 at 12:18 PM.
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Well, what do you know? Some "facts" emerge.

    stay safe.
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    Drove to get killed...hmm...common sense, by the prosecutor, is conspicuously absent.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Based on what facts have been presented thus far, looks like the person who was killed was the aggressor.

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    I sent this to the wrong post:

    Last year there was a case where the castle doctrine was rejected and sent the apartment dweller to jail. Apparently CD only applies for home defense INSIDE home. This could complicate the western WI case. I understand that castle doctrine can be applied to a vehicle but the issue will be complicated to prove. Could one have driven away and avoided the shooting and killing? It will be interesting to see the case proceed.

    http://www.jsonline.com/news/wiscons...277770481.html

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    Another thing, if this guy had his gun hidden in his vehicle that MAY complicate the issue. I remember MKEgal had this problem of supposed CC when she was OCing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    Another thing, if this guy had his gun hidden in his vehicle that MAY complicate the issue. I remember MKEgal had this problem of supposed CC when she was OCing.
    And that case law is still on the books, and will be until someone acquires standing for appeal.

    To "go armed" does not require going anywhere. The elements for a violation of s. 941.23 are: 1) a dangerous weapon is on the defendant's person or within reach; 2) the defendant is aware of the weapon's presence; and 3) the weapon is hidden. State v. Keith, 175 Wis. 2d 75, 498 N.W.2d 865 (Ct. App. 1993).

    A handgun on the seat of a car that was indiscernible from ordinary observation by a person outside, and within the immediate vicinity, of the vehicle was hidden from view for purposes of determining whether the gun was a concealed weapon under this section. State v. Walls, 190 Wis. 2d 65, 526 N.W.2d 765 (Ct. App. 1994).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    Another thing, if this guy had his gun hidden in his vehicle that MAY complicate the issue. I remember MKEgal had this problem of supposed CC when she was OCing.
    I still contend that 167.31 does no mention whether it is concealed or not, so 941.23 in a vehicle is a moot point if it in a glove box, under a seat, etc, etc, etc, as long as the person is not carrying it on their body.
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    I still contend that 167.31 does no mention whether it is concealed or not, so 941.23 in a vehicle is a moot point if it in a glove box, under a seat, etc, etc, etc, as long as the person is not carrying it on their body.
    Didn't MKEgal have it besides her on the passenger seat and still got into trouble for it?

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    UPDATE!! Levi Acre-Kendall not guilty in fatal stabbing along St. Croix River.

    According to news reports, Kelly, of St. Croix Falls, and a friend were on the Minnesota side of the river, in Interstate Park, about 9:45 p.m. in April. They were disturbed that Acre-Kendall's fishing group, on the Wisconsin side of the river, was using profanity and marijuana, so they drove over to confront them about the younger men's behavior.

    Acre-Kendall testified Friday that someone Kelly's group pushed him to the ground, prompting him to pull a knife as he retreated to a friend's car. But Kelly followed him, the defendant said, and pulled him out of the car. He said he stabbed Kelly because he feared for his life.

    The prosecutor contends Acre-Kendall provoked Kelly with sarcastic remarks and noted that the defendant and his friends fled with the park after the stabbing, past two police cars.

    http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/f...361835881.html
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    Would have been so much easier just to have stayed in MN.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    According to news reports, Kelly, of St. Croix Falls, and a friend were on the Minnesota side of the river, in Interstate Park, about 9:45 p.m. in April. They were disturbed that Acre-Kendall's fishing group, on the Wisconsin side of the river, was using profanity and marijuana, so they drove over to confront them about the younger men's behavior.

    Acre-Kendall testified Friday that someone Kelly's group pushed him to the ground, prompting him to pull a knife as he retreated to a friend's car. But Kelly followed him, the defendant said, and pulled him out of the car. He said he stabbed Kelly because he feared for his life.

    The prosecutor contends Acre-Kendall provoked Kelly with sarcastic remarks and noted that the defendant and his friends fled with the park after the stabbing, past two police cars.

    http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/f...361835881.html
    Well well this explains it all. 'judge' Kelly decided that he was going to be a 'cop' and go to WI side of the StCroix river and take care of the dopers. Then there he got aggressive and someone pushed Levi to the ground whereupon he pulled out a knife and retreated to a car with Kelly in hot pursuit which lead to the stabbing. Kelly should have stayed in Minnesota like Firearms concluded and would still be alive today. In the Discovery phase, the details came out. So Stand your ground and Castle doctrine was justified. The court room was stunned and Kelly's family crushed and that is why we always need a jury trials!! This plea bargain and the judge only trials are dangerous in these types of circumstances.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    Well well this explains it all. 'judge' Kelly decided that he was going to be a 'cop' and go to WI side of the StCroix river and take care of the dopers. Then there he got aggressive and someone pushed Levi to the ground whereupon he pulled out a knife and retreated to a car with Kelly in hot pursuit which lead to the stabbing. Kelly should have stayed in Minnesota like Firearms concluded and would still be alive today. In the Discovery phase, the details came out. So Stand your ground and Castle doctrine was justified. The court room was stunned and Kelly's family crushed and that is why we always need a jury trials!! This plea bargain and the judge only trials are dangerous in these types of circumstances.
    Another thing to note is the fact, that political groups and individuals have come to believe that if cops shoot to kill or a citizen in order to defend themselves takes a life, they MUST, repeat MUST go to jail, no matter what the circumstances, justified or not. That's why the courtroom and Kelly's family were in shock. I suppose there will be a lawsuit filed against Levi to suck the life out of him. I am sure Kelly's family may say: "He must pay!". This scenario was noted in Michael Brown's killing by Darren Wilson in Ferguson MO. By the way what about the marijuana charge?

    We who have chosen to exercise our 2A may have to plan for the lawsuit that will follow if we are acquitted in a self defense shooting resulting in a loss of life.
    Last edited by Law abider; 12-15-2015 at 03:41 PM.

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