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Thread: I hope we are more prepared than France.

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    I hope we are more prepared than France.

    My heart goes out to the victims and families in France, I only hope the Armed Citizens of the US are prepared if or when trouble comes knocking on our door !
    Last edited by “utlaw72; 11-13-2015 at 10:51 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    And just what do you suggest we do before the brown matter hits the oscillator?

    The French started upping their security in Paris about a week ago, to be ready for a globular warmering conference scheduled for two weeks from now.

    sstay safe.
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    There is very little that can be done to PREVENT attacks like this. The best we can do is have a plan for after.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hjon71 View Post
    There is very little that can be done to PREVENT attacks like this. The best we can do is have a plan for after.
    Rank nonsense Barbara Streisand. Deport deport deport incarcerate incarcerate incarcerate, execute execute execute. YOU may not like that security, traded for freedom, but it can be done.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    You're right Hitler, I'm not for trading security for liberty. Also, I didn't say there were NO provisions, just limited ones.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    We as citizens should prepare for another jump in the rise of the terrorist police state
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by hjon71 View Post
    There is very little that can be done to PREVENT attacks like this. The best we can do is have a plan for after.
    Firstly, Welcome to OCDO outlaw. I hope you enjoy your stay, and it does not end with just one post.

    My Sweet Baboo and I have discussed this type of thing. The number one thing to do (in my world) is to have a GUN on my person in order to return fire. Lori does the commo thing to 911 as she draws her weapon to back me up. We do not wish to play this out, but folks, it is just a matter of time. Think about what you will do then, NOW.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    We as citizens should prepare for another jump in the rise of the terrorist police state
    This^

    But with over 100 dead, many due to guns it makes Obama look like an idiot for claiming that only the US has mass shootings. There is nothing anyone can do other than defend themselves against lunatic religious fanatics. Or any other lunatic bent on violence.

    Local Police, and the Gestapo police cannot protect you. Gun laws cannot protect you. More gun laws has the same effect as the gun laws we have~~nothing.

    Your security lies with YOU, and for that liberty must prevail. I feel sorry for the French that they were mostly disarmed.

    All you's are in the general tense.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hjon71 View Post
    There is very little that can be done to PREVENT attacks like this. The best we can do is have a plan for after.

    Sent from my LG-E970 using Tapatalk
    There is very little that can be done to PREVENT attacks like this. The best we can do is have a plan for during and after. There I fixed it for you.
    Throw me to the wolves and I will come back leading the pack.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hjon71 View Post
    There is very little that can be done to PREVENT attacks like this. The best we can do is have a plan for after.

    Sent from my LG-E970 using Tapatalk
    Well, not after you let these people into your country. Lucky we did not let people just walk into the US...oh, wait.

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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Are we prepared? No. We have a smattering of citizen militias a gun community that allows themselves to be enslaved by their government by tucking their tails between their legs and asking permission to exercise a right and accepting when they are told no. And I doubt many people will defend themselves when the government comes to steal their firearms. They're cry to their senator who most likely doesnt care and pretty soon we'l be lead at gunpoint to mosques.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    Are we prepared? No. We have a smattering of citizen militias a gun community that allows themselves to be enslaved by their government by tucking their tails between their legs and asking permission to exercise a right and accepting when they are told no. And I doubt many people will defend themselves when the government comes to steal their firearms. They're cry to their senator who most likely doesnt care and pretty soon we'l be lead at gunpoint to mosques.
    I wonder how many would try to take mine? Well, I guess I can count them afterwards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    Are we prepared? No. We have a smattering of citizen militias a gun community that allows themselves to be enslaved by their government by tucking their tails between their legs and asking permission to exercise a right and accepting when they are told no. And I doubt many people will defend themselves when the government comes to steal their firearms. They're cry to their senator who most likely doesnt care and pretty soon we'l be lead at gunpoint to mosques.
    Do YOU want to live in that world, then why defend yourself when they come for your guns? If every gun owner took one government agent with him into that good night, then I think we would overwhelm them outnumbered.

    I am old, I have lived a good life, I am hale, with a steady hand. Better they try to take me while my blood is hot and my grip firm than my daughter. YMMV

    Led off to mosques? Are you bris milah circumcised? You will not make it to a mosque. On some of US our mark of Christianity is indelible.

    Genesis 17:10-14

    This is My covenant, which ye shall keep, between Me and you and thy seed after thee: every male among you shall be circumcised. 11 And ye shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of a covenant betwixt Me and you. 12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every male throughout your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any foreigner, that is not of thy seed. 13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised; and My covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. 14 And the uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken My covenant.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 11-15-2015 at 08:54 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    This^

    But with over 100 dead, many due to guns it makes Obama look like an idiot for claiming that only the US has mass shootings. There is nothing anyone can do other than defend themselves against lunatic religious fanatics. Or any other lunatic bent on violence.

    Local Police, and the Gestapo police cannot protect you. Gun laws cannot protect you. More gun laws has the same effect as the gun laws we have~~nothing.

    Your security lies with YOU, and for that liberty must prevail. I feel sorry for the French that they were mostly disarmed.

    All you's are in the general tense.
    Good points.

    Of course, the unanswered question is, "how did these guys get this planned and executed under the noses of the oh-so necessary and indispensable state apparatus?"

    Hours after the events hit the news media, the (ABC?) radio network was passing along the comment of some senior congressional committee member that western intelligence had warned of a heightened dangerousness. I thunk it over for a moment, and realized I hadn't heard about Code Orange or whatever out of the fedgov for quite some time. Yet, here was an American congresscriminal being quoted to the effect that western intelligence agencies knew something big was likely to happen.

    I wonder if Obamacare covers a hip replacement from having my leg pulled by government.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

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    the unfortunate part, this country's mentality of established and accepted GFZs, our citizens would be caught and be injured/die time and time again in the same type of devastating premeditated attack, either from terrorists, pseudo terrorists, mentally handicapped individuals, etc.

    prepared...nope... never happen in our life times and a prediction...our GFZs will increase and tighter...

    ipse
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Do YOU want to live in that world, then why defend yourself when they come for your guns? If every gun owner took one government agent with him into that good night, then I think we would overwhelm them outnumbered.

    I am old, I have lived a good life, I am hale, with a steady hand. Better they try to take me while my blood is hot and my grip firm than my daughter. YMMV

    Led off to mosques? Are you bris milah circumcised? You will not make it to a mosque. On some of US our mark of Christianity is indelible.
    I think I need to make it very clear exactly what I see. Would I take up arms and fight till I die? Yes. I would happily fight. However as much as I know full well the Koran is basically a terrorist manual and ISIS is exactly what Islam commands, not all of them are in any way obedient to those commands. I've seen so many posts and comments advocating the extermination of all Muslims and this is as bad as they can be. No we need to focus on the real danger. Those who would wage jihad on us and take our freedom. I lived among Muslims in the UK and 99% of them were totally harmless.

    Would I also fight to defend against those others who would steal our guns, home, property, assault us and more? Yes I would. But not all police are evil and not all government officials are evil. There are good men and women, some of whom are Oath Keepers, who will not betray us.
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    France/Europe and America - When the Terrorist/Crazies Pop Up

    Lets Lay Out the Situation this way.

    1. European citizens outsource personal security totally to the government. The concept of being responsible for their individual security, and by inference the security of the space and time they are in does not exist. There is no acceptance that there is an Other/Dark Side with goals and objectives that are not the citizen's, and will use violence, or the threat of violence, to achieve their ends. Being armed, as a citizen, to defend yourself up close and personal, is an uncivilized American idea.
    2. European street cops, if they are armed, consider their arms largely as badges of office, not tools to deal with threats. American street cops are wired to deal with armed evil, criminal, crazy, or terrorist types with their weapons, if necessary.
    3. European street cops have not learned the Columbine Rule - if you hear shooting or explosions, you go in with what your have, and do not wait for backup or SWAT types. 10 to 15 minute wait? American street cops would have gone right in immediately with their weapons, and aggressively attacked the terrorists.
    4. The active shooting terrorists planned on the basis that (1) the cops will not immediately force a confrontation, and (2) the intended victims will not be armed - both physically (no guns) and mentally - to counter attack. The shooters in the theater had one shooter looking for any potential victim who would rush the shooter while being unarmed. If you were in the audience being shot at and were armed, the flashing lights would have concealed your shots, and firing at the balcony would have been easier, since the background would have not been an issue.


    None of the talking heads dealing with the horror of this event are talking about this kind of tactical analysis.
    Last edited by GHF; 11-15-2015 at 11:32 PM.

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    France/Europe and America - When the Terrorist/Crazies Pop Up

    Lets Lay Out the Situation this way.

    1. European citizens outsource personal security totally to the government. The concept of being responsible for their individual security, and by inference the security of the space and time they are in does not exist. There is no acceptance that there is an Other/Dark Side with goals and objectives that are not the citizen's, and will use violence, or the threat of violence, to achieve their ends. Being armed, as a citizen, to defend yourself up close and personal, is an uncivilized American idea.
    2. European street cops, if they are armed, consider their arms largely as badges of office, not tools to deal with threats. American street cops are wired to deal with armed evil, criminal, crazy, or terrorist types with their weapons, if necessary.
    3. European street cops have not learned the Columbine Rule - if you hear shooting or explosions, you go in with what your have, and do not wait for backup or SWAT types. 10 to 15 minute wait? American street cops would have gone right in immediately with their weapons, and aggressively attacked the terrorists.
    4. The active shooting terrorists planned on the basis that (1) the cops will not immediately force a confrontation, and (2) the intended victims will not be armed - both physically (no guns) and mentally - to counter attack. The shooters in the theater had one shooter looking for any potential victim who would rush the shooter while being unarmed. If you were in the audience being shot at and were armed, the flashing lights would have concealed your shots, and firing at the balcony would have been easier, since the background would have not been an issue.


    None of the talking heads dealing with the horror of this are talking the about this tactical analysis.
    Last edited by GHF; 11-15-2015 at 11:39 PM. Reason: Dup

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    Of course, it would be good to stop an attack in the initial phase. And I'm not diminishing the personal loss of anyone, but 130 deaths in a city of 2.2million... It could have been so much worse if it had been well planned and executed with the intention of maximum damage. Based on what I've read and heard, there were probably thousands or tens of thousands of potential targets in the streets and in similar venues that night. We can all be thankful that the carnage was not worse.
    And even without a gun, there are actions individuals can take when the choice is to die by gunshot or die trying to stop the attack. Now is a time to contemplate those options as well. I'm no hero, but if I'm going down, best get my licks in and take a risk for the greater good. Or maybe I'll be paralyzed by fear. But if I don't contemplate it in advance, I may as well just give up when the time comes.


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    Regular Member rscottie's Avatar
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    My wife and I were discussing this attack and how they may attack us here.

    None of the scenarios were pleasant.

    We did come up with something we were not sure about. Would it set off a suicide vest if you shot the terrorist and happened to hit the explosive?


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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscottie View Post
    My wife and I were discussing this attack and how they may attack us here.

    None of the scenarios were pleasant.

    We did come up with something we were not sure about. Would it set off a suicide vest if you shot the terrorist and happened to hit the explosive?


    Sent from my Sony Xperia using Tapatalk 4
    Hitting the plastique (of any of dozens of various specific kinds) should not set anything off.

    Ever since C-4 (and maybe before) one of the "fun things to do" was to pull off a piece of explosive and, before an enthralled crowd of natives and military, beat the everloving out of it with a hammer. And then to boil a canteen cut of water i about two minutes by pulling off a thumbnail sized piece and lighting it.

    (There were some who would also chew and swallow a piece, but usually only once. Can you say sister-in-law of all stomach aches?)

    Now if you hit the detonating switch/device all bets are off. Maybe yes, maybe no. If you are going to try it at home to find out, be sure to have someone post the video to YouTube.

    stay safe.

    MAJOR EDIT!!

    Mea culpa. I failed to do my homework and just went and presumed the Paris bombers were using plastique like previous bombers.

    It looks like they were using homemade TATP.

    Hitting TAPT with a bullet WILL set it off - big time. Heck, looking at the stuff wrong can set it off.

    See http://explosives.wonderhowto.com/ho...osive-0132649/ for the science.

    stay safe.
    Last edited by skidmark; 11-17-2015 at 09:16 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscottie View Post
    [ ... ]We did come up with something we were not sure about. Would it set off a suicide vest if you shot the terrorist and happened to hit the explosive?
    Controlled sensitivity is perhaps the hallmark of modern explosives.

    Plastiques are quite insensitive. Contrariwise, the azides and picrates used as gas sources in airbags and initiators can be very sensitive. Nitrogen tri-iodide can be set off by an alpha 2He4 particle. A classroom demonstration was as a 'land-mine' for a housefly.
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    Dead man switches or just the fact the person who you just shot still has the present mind set to push or pull the switch.

    Many places in this country are very soft targets.

    One can only hope you are not one of the first victims giving one self a fighting chance.

    Avoiding situations that are prime targets.

    Tactics shooting from cover, shooting and moving, buying and wearing armor.

    For those who can, being in decent physical shape.

    Most likely these attacks well take place in the states that have the most gun control so being armed there could be a moot point for a lot of the victims.

    The best situation is a government that takes this seriously and takes the fight to them instead of worrying about being politically correct.
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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    You're more likely to be bitten by a shark, while being struck by lightning, than you are of being the victim of Islamic terrorism in America.

    Just don't travel to the Middle East.

    And don't buy lottery tickets (it's a scam).
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    Playing the lottery or being a victim, one can only lose if one plays.
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