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Thread: Stuff about 80% shooty things

  1. #1
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Stuff about 80% shooty things

    I don't know if anyone recalls, or cared to know in the first place, about what happened to KT Ordnance when they opened their shop up to finishing 80% guns, and kinda did it all wrong.

    The story was that they sold the 80% frames, then had the CnC code handy and they just let the buyer push a button and poof, it finished the remaining 20%.

    I'm kind of a stickler for making people learn instead of cheat. Even if that weren't an obvious flouting of the law, I would make people learn how to code or at least MDI the thing... With a few minor tricks, you don't even have to write code for most of the 1911's finishing operations. The barrel seat is the only tricky bit, and it's not that hard if you keep it simple.

    I'd be willing to open my crappy little CnC shop up to people wanting to finish off 80% receivers, proceeds going to the OC push. No KT Ordnance cheating tho. You'll have to learn and actually do it right. Don't have to waste money on a bunch of stupid jigs. Do it like it was meant to be done.

    Make the gun you plan to OC?

    Just an idea I'm having. Maybe a stupid idea.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    A good idea but one that likely would fail.

    Recall roll your own tobacco shops?

    They're out of business.

    Along same lines ....

    Want to do something like this .. rent out the CNC machine .. they are small and portable.

    Then they can push the button in their living room.

  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    A good idea but one that likely would fail.

    Recall roll your own tobacco shops?

    They're out of business.

    Along same lines ....

    Want to do something like this .. rent out the CNC machine .. they are small and portable.

    Then they can push the button in their living room.
    I wasn't suggesting it as a business idea. Just that it might be a fun way to raise a few bucks. I have the shop already...
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Unless one plans to use the information one learns after the process is done it would be a waste of time for many.

    Only to another machinist would it be considered cheating.

    As you know being able to program CNC machines properly takes a bit more training then just a one time proposition.

    I see no advantage for most people to your idea, then the push the button model.

    Right now it is much simpler in most places just to buy a used free market firearm for cash.
    Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 11-16-2015 at 07:27 AM.
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    Word salad!
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Right now it is much simpler in most places just to buy a used free market firearm for cash.
    Where is the fun in that? I build "lego" guns (AR15s) a lot. I make them MY way and they have no markings unless I put them there. I will be building a pistol from polymer80. Several calibres available.
    http://www.polymer80.com/Polymer80-S...eid=1d5ab8effc

    ATF has shut down "build parties" almost everywhere. Group builds get you arrested. The idea of a rental cnc would work if it was cost effective. Cutting one or two 80 lowers would not be good. Maybe a half dozen or so to even it out.
    Have the smaller machines gone down in price yet? Just a matter of time I suppose.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

  7. #7
    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    SNIP...
    I'd be willing to open my crappy little CnC shop up to people wanting to finish off 80% receivers, proceeds going to the OC push. No KT Ordnance cheating tho. You'll have to learn and actually do it right. Don't have to waste money on a bunch of stupid jigs. Do it like it was meant to be done.

    Make the gun you plan to OC?

    Just an idea I'm having. Maybe a stupid idea.
    While I commend your willingness to lend your tools for your neighbor to prepare/make his, I do agree with the argument that you would more than likely find yourself in hot water and unable to provide aid for the advancement of Liberty. While you may reach a few individuals by the idea you propose, you would likely be able to spread the word to tens more if you aren't locked up.

    Perhaps a series of YouTube videos, so that no argument can be made of you "illegally" () running a business from home without a "proper" business license? Just my $0.02.


    Now, if I may have your input on an idea I've cooked up? Other members are more than welcome to give their input.
    I have contemplated buying some inexpensive (likely polymer) AR 80% lower blanks to gift to people this Christmas. I am considering attaching a little card explaining how one may find the info to finish it online, along with the relevant federal law and ATF decision. My way of nudging people to work for their own Freedom. Sound like it would be a good idea?
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

  8. #8
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Young Man View Post
    I have contemplated buying some inexpensive (likely polymer) AR 80% lower blanks to gift to people this Christmas. I am considering attaching a little card explaining how one may find the info to finish it online, along with the relevant federal law and ATF decision. My way of nudging people to work for their own Freedom. Sound like it would be a good idea?
    Extreme laziness is the problem.

    I already am up to my eyeballs in Solvent Traps.

    I get dozens of "How do I make an illegal silencer, thus making you a part of conspiracy to manufacture a silencer for answering."

    So dumb they don't even realize how dumb they are, and what a huge dick they're being by asking.

    I wanted to do this because money is not where entitlement mentality ends and begins.

    It begins with self-sufficiency. Being dependent upon government for money (welfare) is foolish, right? But being unable to provide for yourself is the pre-existing condition that grants them that much power. If you can't make a gun, you're every bit a socialist loser dependent upon government to allow you to have X. Provided by, allowed to have, it's the same thing. Government can make a law banning guns, then your are helplessly dependent if you depend upon a supplier to provide it... Doesn't matter if you pay for it with your hard earned money, or sold a food stamp card for cash; when nobody makes them anymore?

    80% stuff can be a false sense of security, or a first step... If doing 20% of the work to just one of the parts of a gun is too much to ask, too much to learn, even when some guy with a machine shop is offering his tools and time for free... Well... What exactly are you voting for? Will it matter?

    Tormach just made available their 440 machine. I'd like to stick one on a Sail Catamaran and go make machine guns out in international waters... I've used machines as big as a house, and currently own their 1100, and am quite damn impressed by it...

    CnC machines cost less than a crappy used car now... The 440 is a legitimate tabletop CnC mill. Imagine what you could do with one of those, a dial caliper, and a completely disassembled P-3AT...
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  9. #9
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    ATF has shut down "build parties" almost everywhere. Group builds get you arrested.
    And the basis for this?
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  10. #10
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Right now it is much simpler in most places just to buy a used free market firearm for cash.
    Of course. And if that's all you want, do it.

    But when it's not, how will you have prepared yourself to self-provide?

    Some people really do want to break out of their prison of censorship and ignorance... Not many. But I'll still extend my hand even if it spends most of it's time hanging in the cold...
    Last edited by ixtow; 11-16-2015 at 07:24 PM.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    One ATF letter ...

    https://www.atf.gov/file/11711/download

    What do you think?

  12. #12
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    One ATF letter ...

    https://www.atf.gov/file/11711/download

    What do you think?
    I've seen it.

    "using machinery, tools, or equipment under its dominion and control where that
    business controls access to, and use of, such machinery, tools, or equipment."

    I won't be using it for you. I won't be running any programs. There won't be any pre-written programs that you just push the button... Any program run would have to be written by the person doing it.

    I would not be controlling the "use of, such machinery, tools, or equipment." Simply assuring competence and letting you do your thing.

    The notion was a one-on-one situation where you learn the requisite skills and then do it yourself.

    But, I'm not going to fight about it. I offered, nobody wants it.

    Whatever.

    Subject closed.

    Put a Tormach 440 on a wheeled dolly and rent it out to people who won't learn and will then wreck it? No thanks.

    The whole point is the learning... But, entitlement reigns supreme. Nobody wants to do X because they'd ahve to learn X.

    It's easier to demand free fish than to go fishing.
    Last edited by ixtow; 12-04-2015 at 07:35 PM.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    I've seen it.

    "using machinery, tools, or equipment under its dominion and control where that
    business controls access to, and use of, such machinery, tools, or equipment."

    I won't be using it for you. I won't be running any programs. There won't be any pre-written programs that you just push the button... Any program run would have to be written by the person doing it.

    I would not be controlling the "use of, such machinery, tools, or equipment." Simply assuring competence and letting you do your thing.

    The notion was a one-on-one situation where you learn the requisite skills and then do it yourself.

    But, I'm not going to fight about it. I offered, nobody wants it.

    Whatever.

    Subject closed.

    Put a Tormach 440 on a wheeled dolly and rent it out to people who won't learn and will then wreck it? No thanks.

    The whole point is the learning... But, entitlement reigns supreme. Nobody wants to do X because they'd ahve to learn X.

    It's easier to demand free fish than to go fishing.
    There is YOUTUBE that has a zillion 80% completion jobs. Nice you are willing to teach folks ... not surprised folks did not respond (they don't know you, right?) ... and not many people want to build their own (and those that do are usually willing to learn it themselves)

    What's your next project?

  14. #14
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    There is YOUTUBE that has a zillion 80% completion jobs. Nice you are willing to teach folks ... not surprised folks did not respond (they don't know you, right?) ... and not many people want to build their own (and those that do are usually willing to learn it themselves)

    What's your next project?
    I was thinking about buying a boat, a Tormach 440, and building machine guns in International waters... Only form of payment accepted would be DASH.

    Don't tell me that Catamaran isn't a tax write off. It's 100% a business expense. It's the government's own laws that forced me to buy it just so I could make the guns I want...

    But it'd probably draw a lot of persecution efforts from corrupt governments around the world who regularly commit violence with their own machine guns...
    Last edited by ixtow; 12-14-2015 at 05:22 AM.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  15. #15
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    I was thinking about buying a boat, a Tormach 440, and building machine guns in International waters...
    Would it matter where the boat was registered?
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    I was thinking about buying a boat, a Tormach 440, and building machine guns in International waters... Only form of payment accepted would be DASH.

    Don't tell me that Catamaran isn't a tax write off. It's 100% a business expense. It's the government's own laws that forced me to buy it just so I could make the guns I want...

    But it'd probably draw a lot of persecution efforts from corrupt governments around the world who regularly commit violence with their own machine guns...
    Nice idea, but most coastal nations have bigger guns and bigger boats. They could "accidentally" shoulder your boat and sink you. Granted, they would be obligated to rescue you, but then you are out of business at best, and dead at worst. You could try suing them afterwards and you might get something in 20 or 30 years...maybe.
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Would it matter where the boat was registered?
    Pretty sure US flagged vessels are subject to US federal law, at all times.

  18. #18
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    With circumstances as dire as you describe, life is not worth living.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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