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Thread: Trump on Paris

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    Trump on Paris

    http://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2015...inkId=18758302

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Trump on Paris - Victims Should've Had Guns
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 11-17-2015 at 09:03 AM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Trump on Paris - Victims Should've Had Guns
    I have a hard time taking that seriously coming from a dyed-in-the-wool New Yorker.

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Truth stands firmly on its own merit, regardless of the source. Don't let the identity of the source blind you to the truth.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    And hypocrisy, authoritarianism and credentialism stand on their own too.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Truth stands firmly on its own merit, regardless of the source. Don't let the identity of the source blind you to the truth.
    Don't get me wrong, I share the sentiment. I just don't for a second believe that is anything more than pandering to the base coming from Trump.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Trump carries a pistol, or so he states. Those around him, on the sidewalk, are not so blessed. YMMV
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Trump carries a pistol, or so he states. Those around him, on the sidewalk, are not so blessed. YMMV
    That is likely a self-serving lie, that he carries a pistol.

    Why do we call them out on such lies but tolerate them here, or at last unverifiable claims of elite and special knowledge.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    That is likely a self-serving lie, that he carries a pistol.

    Why do we call them out on such lies but tolerate them here, or at last unverifiable claims of elite and special knowledge.
    Apparently too quick on the draw there.

    "Other prominent New Yorkers on the permit list include Howard Stern, Don Imus, Donald Trump and Donald Trump Jr., and Estee Lauder heir Ron Lauder.
    The 445-page list was released to The Upshot under New York's Freedom of Information Law."

    http://gawker.com/5974190/here-is-a-list-of-all-the-********-who-own-guns-in-new-york-city

    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/upshot/f...143834913.html

    Note that both Donalds have a CB license = carry for business.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 11-18-2015 at 09:25 AM. Reason: added & fixed
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    That is likely a self-serving lie, that he carries a pistol.

    Why do we call them out on such lies but tolerate them here, or at last unverifiable claims of elite and special knowledge.
    Winter has, apparently, come early in the Great White North.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Apparently too quick on the draw there.

    "Other prominent New Yorkers on the permit list include Howard Stern, Don Imus, Donald Trump and Donald Trump Jr., and Estee Lauder heir Ron Lauder.
    The 445-page list was released to The Upshot under New York's Freedom of Information Law."

    http://gawker.com/5974190/here-is-a-list-of-all-the-********-who-own-guns-in-new-york-city

    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/upshot/f...143834913.html

    Note that both Donalds have a CB license = carry for business.
    I'm not surprised. It doesn't change my assessment. How much money has Trump spent towards reforming the draconian laws in NYC which still effectively disenfranchise many less-elite New Yorkers of the right to modern, practical means of self-defense?

    The act of an elite availing himself of a privilege does not speak a whit to his desire to see that privilege extended as a right to his neighbors and fellow citizens. At worst it feeds confirmation bias, at best it's so much noise.
    Last edited by marshaul; 11-18-2015 at 10:48 PM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    I'm not surprised. It doesn't change my assessment. How much money has Trump spent towards reforming the draconian laws in NYC which still effectively disenfranchise many less-elite New Yorkers of the right to modern, practical means of self-defense?

    The act of an elite availing himself of a privilege does not speak a whit to his desire to see that privilege extended as a right to his neighbors and fellow citizens. At worst it feeds confirmation bias, at best it's so much noise.
    Was responding to just the reply that it was a "self-serving lie" that Trump had a permit.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    When you know the perfect candidate please tell us who it is.
    Personal Defensive Solutions professional personal firearms, edge weapons and hands on defensive training and tactics pdsolutions@hotmail.com

    Any and all spelling errors are just to give the spelling Nazis something to do

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    Another look at Trump whole article at the link

    http://www.gunwatch.blogspot.com/201...ng-second.html

    In an exclusive to Brietbart.com, Donald Trump has called for Americans to bear arms to increase security in the United States. From Brietbart.com:

    Carrying a weapon is not always feasible or appropriate. However, given the increased tensions that are the result of continued, escalating terrorism around the world, more legitimately armed individuals on the streets is a positive outcome. Each permit holder must make the decision to carry or not carry. I will carry more often than I have in the past, and I am sure other concealed permit holders will do the same. Do we have an obligation to carry? The answer is “yes,” but we must do it in such a way as to raise serious doubts in the minds of those who might be considering violence in America. Deterring violence is far better than dealing with the aftermath of an act of terror. Less blood, more security. That is what will make America great again.
    Donald Trump shows that he understands reality better than most of the politicians in the nation. This continues his breakthrough strategy of ignoring the censorship imposed by the media cartel in the name of "political correctness". The concept of the citizenry being armed to defend against threats is as old and as obvious as mankind.
    Personal Defensive Solutions professional personal firearms, edge weapons and hands on defensive training and tactics pdsolutions@hotmail.com

    Any and all spelling errors are just to give the spelling Nazis something to do

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    -snip- The concept of the citizenry being armed to defend against threats is as old and as obvious as mankind.
    As is the concept of the power hungry first disarming the citizenry in order to become dictators and tyrants.

    Both governments and individuals understand that it is very difficult for those who are disarmed to meaningfully resist being controlled.
    Last edited by Bikenut; 11-19-2015 at 11:54 AM.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    When you know the perfect candidate please tell us who it is.
    Trump isn't even a good candidate. If we want a political outsider, we should elect Rand Paul. He's the least-imperfect by a long shot. Of course, Rand may have no chance, but then again neither does Trump, no matter how well he polls.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Each permit holder must make the decision to carry or not carry. I will carry more often than I have in the past, and I am sure other concealed permit holders will do the same.
    Oh yeah, what a pro-gun guy. He's definitely not a dyed-in-the-wool New Yorker even in his attitude about guns or anything.

    Massive confirmation bias in this thread.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Oh yeah, what a pro-gun guy. He's definitely not a dyed-in-the-wool New Yorker even in his attitude about guns or anything.

    Massive confirmation bias in this thread.
    Minimal distention though, jus' sayin'.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Don't get me wrong, I share the sentiment. I just don't for a second believe that is anything more than pandering to the base coming from Trump.
    I with you on this. Given his past support--financial and otherwise--for liberal causes and politicians, I don't trust anything Trump says. I'm deeply concerned that he either wins the GOP nomination or manages to drive out those few candidates who seem to actually believe similarly on critical issues, leaving the nomination for Bush or Rubio.

    That said, I'm also deeply concerned that the GOP establishment either doesn't get it, or is so ideologically opposed to what the base really wants that the establishment isn't willing to at least parrot Trump.

    Prior to Trump entering the race we had Jeb and Rubio seeing how close to "amnesty" and "open borders" they could get. Trump talks about building a wall and his numbers go up. He says some impolite things about illegal aliens and rather than meekly apologizing and making nice, he doubles down by saying not only is going to build a wall, he is going to make Mexico pay for it. Obviously, this is somewhere between marketing puffery and total, utter, horse pucky. But his numbers go up.

    The base wants border security. Jeb and Rubio are now soft peddling their amnesty plans, but are not willing to provide the voters (the grassroots in both major parties I believe) what they want.

    Trump says gun control is a bad idea. And when terrorists hit Paris, he doubles down again saying the French should have been armed. As discussed elsewhere on this forum, carrying a gun does very little to nothing to protect against a suicide bomb, or any bomb for that matter. Which is one reason terrorists use them, because even if it is only a cop, someone with a gun might actually respond effectively to guys with guns. I don't know how many in the general public recognize his Paris statement as crap. But emotionally I think the voters recognize this is a guy who doesn't get cowed by political correctness or what the media thinks someone should or shouldn't say.

    Trump says we gotta kill the bad guys and nearly everyone agrees. We all know he has no idea how to do this any better than Obama's non-action or W's highly unpopular occupation. But he says we gotta get the bad guys like he means it. So his numbers go up.

    His tax plan is terrible. If it came from a Democrat the GOP base would scream about everyone needing to have skin in the game. But Trump gets a pass, I think, because he sounds authentic.

    In total, I think Cruz is the best option at this point.

    I like much of Rand Paul. He clearly has a very solid grasp of the complexities of foreign policy. But even if I ignore what I think is too much of an isolationist view on his part, he describes the complexities of foreign policy much the way I recall Carter doing so: with the kind of solid grasp that explains why it is impossible to do anything at all. Thank you for the analysis paralysis. Reagan's answer to the question about his plans for the cold war--"We win, they lose!"--can be discredited as jingoistic, overly-simplistic, even provocative. It just also happens to have been accurate.

    But whether one like Paul or Cruz or anyone else, I'm coming to think the media loves Trump. Maybe it is just that he drives up ratings. Maybe it is that they figure he hands the nomination to one of the RINOs. Maybe the media figures Trump is the guy most likely to win the GOP nomination while being the least likely to beat Hillary. Whatever the reason, Trump is over-shadowing those who might win the nomination and actually be something different than the typical RINO.

    Charles
    Last edited by utbagpiper; 11-19-2015 at 06:50 PM. Reason: typo fix
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Pretty decent analysis, Charles. Though for my part I definitely prefer Paul to Cruz. "Isolationism" is a non-starter for the US; global trade is simply too powerful a force for even a President to stand athwart it. Non-interventionism, on the other hand, would be a good thing (as I see it), simply to provide a counter to the exaggerated hawkishness of everybody else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Pretty decent analysis, Charles.
    Thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Though for my part I definitely prefer Paul to Cruz. "Isolationism" is a non-starter for the US; global trade is simply too powerful a force for even a President to stand athwart it. Non-interventionism, on the other hand, would be a good thing (as I see it), simply to provide a counter to the exaggerated hawkishness of everybody else.
    I see where you are coming from. I like a lot of what Paul has to offer. And I could almost go for the military non-interventionism in the White House to offset the Congress, Pentagon and military-industrial complex etc. Make no mistake, Paul would get my vote over any of the Democrats, and over most of the rest of the GOP field. He is probably my #2 or #3 choice at this point.

    His analysis on foreign policy complexities is right on...but delivered in a way that makes me very uncomfortable about his willingness to act when it is needed.

    And I do like Cruz much better on immigration and border security. I like Trump's rhetoric here, I just don't believe him.

    I want a very tall fence with rather wide gates, coupled with serous interior enforcement, including the ending of birthright citizenship for children born to illegal aliens.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    I'm not surprised. It doesn't change my assessment. How much money has Trump spent towards reforming the draconian laws in NYC which still effectively disenfranchise many less-elite New Yorkers of the right to modern, practical means of self-defense?
    As you also shared, I agree with your sentiment. I don't think Trump will be spending his billions tilting at windmills, however. His goal is to be elected to the office of the White House in order to replace the grossly inept and flagrantly un-Constitutional actions of the Democrats with (hopefully) far more Constitutionally supportive and compliant actions.

    The act of an elite availing himself of a privilege does not speak a whit to his desire to see that privilege extended as a right to his neighbors and fellow citizens. At worst it feeds confirmation bias, at best it's so much noise.
    Trump has repeatedly stated he believes Second Amendment rights apply to everyone, that they are indeed individual rights, and that the government at all levels is specifically prohibited from infringing on our right to keep and bear arms.
    Last edited by since9; 11-23-2015 at 04:11 PM.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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