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Thread: In your state: can you carry in a PUBLIC Zoo?

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    In your state: can you carry in a PUBLIC Zoo?

    I'm currently engaged in a lawsuit against the St. Louis Zoo related to what I feel are their illegal "No Weapons" signs: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...al-help-needed

    The Zoo has already claimed the "end of the world" if carry was allowed in the zoo - which begs the question "Can one carry (CC or OC) in publicly-owned zoos in your state?"

    If it's necessary to have a CCW permit/license in order to do so, please say state that this is the case. Please be specific about the zoo name and location, if carry can be CC/OC/both, and what, if any, licensing is necessary to carry there.

    I would think that even CA CCW permitees (however few there are) in could carry in zoos.

    The next court date is next Tuesday, so the more information I can get ASAP, the better.

    THANK YOU.
    Last edited by BB62; 11-16-2015 at 10:29 PM.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    GEORGIA - Public Zoo, no restrictions on carry

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    Only one public zoo in CT - Beardsley Zoo ... https://beardsleyzoo.com

    No signs that I can recall. Carry OK.

    If they have a fit over OC is unknown. (to me)

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    Regular Member Bill45's Avatar
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    Well first off, every time I step out of my house I am in a public zoo. A good percent of the animals are sheep, some are wolves and some of us are tigers.

    But to your point... In Washington State you need no permitt to open carry in a municipal zoo or park. We need a CPL to carry concealed or while in a vehicle.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    The Louisville Zoo has no restrictions on firearms, except the City's "No Concealed Weapons in Buildings" ordinance, which is in accordance with state law. OC is not restricted anywhere and CC is restricted only in buildings. Over the years, the Louisville Zoo has claimed at different times that they were private property, that they were a school and that federal law allowed them to ban guns. KC3 confronted them on each of these points. The Zoo was never willing to take their ridiculous arguments into a courtroom. I have OC'ed and CC'ed in the Zoo on several occasions.
    So are you saying that on the several occasions you carried at the zoo is the only time the zoo actually had a live dinosaur on display?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    So are you saying that on the several occasions you carried at the zoo is the only time the zoo actually had a live dinosaur on display?
    Now days holograms are very realistic.


    The Virginia Zoo/Virginia Zoological Park in Norfolk has no restirctions on OC or CC. It is a public facility.
    http://virginiazoo.org/

    All other zoos in Virginia are private property, most do not restrict personal defense tools.
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    Several Texas zoos were posted to prohibit licensed CC. Currently, Texas only has licensed CC and no OC. Along with passing OC earlier this year, the legislature passed a measure creating a method to fine government units that illegally post public property - we also prohibit the posting of public/government property except in very particular circumstances. Several zoos that have made the school/amusement park claim have since remove signs prohibiting guns. I think the Dallas Zoo is the only one still playing this game.
    No animals nor people have been harmed since removal of signs at Houston or Fort Worth Zoos.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Great stuff. Please keep them coming, and specifics about carry (whether CC/OC or both) and links to zoo(s) are very valuable.

    Thanks again.

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    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    Washington state. No permit to OC. Only to cc and loaded car carry.
    In the puget sound area we've got point defiance zoo and woodland park zoo and Northwest trek. All three are covered by state preemption.
    I've OC'd and CC'd at all locations.
    Last edited by decklin; 11-17-2015 at 09:34 PM. Reason: Adding location
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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    --mod note, quote and related post deleted, off topic--
    Please stay on subject and either contribute or post elsewhere.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 11-18-2015 at 05:58 AM.

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Still working on the list, using OCDO members input as well as input from Handgunlaw.us

    Input still sought!

    Alabama
    -
    Alaska
    Arizona - YES
    Arkansas
    California - YES
    Colorado
    Connecticut
    Delaware
    Florida
    Georgia - YES
    Hawaii
    Idaho - YES
    Illinois
    Indiana
    Iowa
    Kansas
    Kentucky – OC: YES, CC: YES, outside of buildings
    Louisiana
    Maine
    Maryland
    Massachusetts
    Michigan - YES
    Minnesota - YES
    Mississippi
    Missouri
    Montana
    Nebraska
    Nevada
    New Hampshire - YES
    New Jersey
    New Mexico
    New York
    North Carolina
    North Dakota
    Ohio
    Oklahoma
    Oregon - YES
    Pennsylvania
    Rhode Island
    South Carolina
    South Dakota
    Tennessee
    Texas – YES (with the exception of those fighting it, using claims similar to the STL Zoo)
    Utah - YES
    Vermont
    Virginia - YES
    Washington - YES
    West Virginia
    Wisconsin
    Wyoming
    Last edited by BB62; 11-21-2015 at 06:05 PM. Reason: revised as new info becomes available

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    Regular Member Lord Sega's Avatar
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    Oregon is OC, CC with a CHL, cities are allowed to have an Unloaded (CHL exempt) ordinance.
    Oregon Zoo is Unloaded OC or Loaded carry (OC and CC) with CHL due to being located within Portland city limits.

    (Oregon statute) 166.173 Authority of city or county to regulate possession of loaded firearms in public places

    (Portland city code) 14A.60.010 Possession of a Loaded Firearm in a Public Place
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    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    Still working on the list, using OCDO members input as well as input from Handgunlaw.us

    Input still sought!

    -
    [RL="http://state.1keydata.com/wyoming.php"]Wyoming


    IF we had a zoo it would be OK

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    IF we had a zoo it would be OK
    Apparently no public zoos in Wyoming.

    The closest thing to a zoo would seem to be Kindness Ranch - Animal Sanctuary in Hartville, Wy. It's private and no indication of any gun rules.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    No public zoos in NH either but it would be legal and protected if one existed. The state has firearm and knife preemption.
    "Loyalty above all else except honor. " -John Mahoney

    "A Government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have." -Gerald R. Ford

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    Regular Member DeSchaine's Avatar
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    In Michigan, there are no specific laws regarding public zoos. However, public zoos would fall under the state pre-emption laws being along the lines of libraries and other "local units of government."

    The big question is which ones are public, and which are private. Detroit and Belle Isle Park state they are publicly run on their website, but others like John Ball (Grand Rapids) or Binder Park (Battle Creek) are not as clear.
    Guard with jealous attention the public liberty.
    Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel.
    Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force.
    Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined.
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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeSchaine View Post
    In Michigan, there are no specific laws regarding public zoos. However, public zoos would fall under the state pre-emption laws being along the lines of libraries and other "local units of government."

    The big question is which ones are public, and which are private. Detroit and Belle Isle Park state they are publicly run on their website, but others like John Ball (Grand Rapids) or Binder Park (Battle Creek) are not as clear.
    So, considering that a Zoo has gates, maybe an entrance building, then open spaces and more buildings, what are the laws regarding libraries and "local units of government" - and how do they affect one's ability to OC and/or CC at a public zoo?

    Thank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by decklin View Post
    No public zoos in NH either but it would be legal and protected if one existed. The state has firearm and knife preemption.
    Thank you.

    So, am I to understand that one can OC and/or CC in government owned buildings in NH?

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    IF we had a zoo it would be OK
    Thank you.

    OC and/or CC in government-owned buildings on WY is OK?

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    OK in Utah

    Utah has only one zoo (so far as I know), the publicly-owned Hogle Zoo in Salt Lake City. Its rules can be found at this link. Nothing about banning the lawful possession of firearms.

    Under State law, permit-free OC is legal if the gun is "Utah unloaded" (empty chamber, but full magazine is ok).

    With any permit issued anywhere in the nation, OC or CC fully loaded is legal.

    I don't have much personal experience with the zoo. But the last OC event organized and reported by UtahConcealedCarry.com back in 2011 seems to have gone off without a hitch. This was after some of the good grassroots activists convinced the zoo they had to remove their "no guns" rule as being in violation of Utah's State Preemption laws.

    Our State Preemption laws prevent most all State and local agencies from imposing any gun regulations and rules at all (cities can ban discharge and a few, specifically enumerated "secure areas" can ban possession). These State preemption laws can be read at 76-10-500 and at 53-5a-102.

    Best of luck and let me know if I can be of any help.

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    Regular Member DeSchaine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    So, considering that a Zoo has gates, maybe an entrance building, then open spaces and more buildings, what are the laws regarding libraries and "local units of government" - and how do they affect one's ability to OC and/or CC at a public zoo?

    Thank you.
    State of Michigan code 123.1102, sec. 2 says that no local unit of government can have any firearm or ammunition restrictions beyond what the state and feds have in place. In CADL vs. MOC, the lower courts basically ruled that because libraries are unrestricted (i.e. not an armory, jail or court) facilities and funded through taxpayer monies, they constitute a Local Unit and are therefore held to the pre-emption. CADL appealed, MSC refused to hear it, so the ruling stands. You can carry OC or CC, up to you. Libraries are not covered in MCL 750.234d.

    That particular section does list seven places that you can't carry without a license: financial institutions, houses of religious worship, courts, theaters, sports arenas, day care center, hospitals and bars. Public zoos don't fall under any of that, regardless of construction.
    Guard with jealous attention the public liberty.
    Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel.
    Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force.
    Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined.
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    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    Thank you.

    So, am I to understand that one can OC and/or CC in government owned buildings in NH?
    The only exception is a court house but you can check your weapon at the door.
    I. No person shall knowingly carry a loaded or unloaded pistol, revolver, or firearm or any other deadly weapon as defined in RSA 625:11, V, whether open or concealed or whether licensed or unlicensed, upon the person or within any of the person's possessions owned or within the person's control in a courtroom or area used by a court. Whoever violates the provisions of this paragraph shall be guilty of a class B felony.
    II. Firearms may be secured at the entrance to a courthouse by courthouse security personnel. III. For purposes of paragraph I, "area used by a court" means:
    (a) In a building dedicated exclusively to court use, the entire building exclusive of the area between the entrance and the courthouse security.
    (b) In any other building which includes a court facility, courtrooms, jury assembly rooms, deliberation rooms, conference and interview rooms, the judge's chambers, other court staff facilities, holding facilities, and corridors, stairways, waiting areas, and elevators directly connecting these rooms and facilities.
    IV. The provisions of this section shall not apply to marshals, sheriffs, deputy sheriffs, police or other duly appointed or elected law enforcement officers, bailiffs and court security officers, or persons with prior authorization of the court for the purpose of introducing weapons into evidence and as otherwise provided for in RSA 159:5.
    V. It shall be an affirmative defense to any prosecution under paragraph I that there was no notice of the provisions of paragraph I posted in a conspicuous place at each public entrance to the court building. Source. 1985, 258:2. 2000, 175:1, eff. Jan. 1, 2001.
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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Thanks DeSchaine & decklin!

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    Thanks DeSchaine & decklin!
    U looking for this information to be able to argue: "Look, all these zoos allow guns and there have been no incidents." ?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    U looking for this information to be able to argue: "Look, all these zoos allow guns and there have been no incidents." ?
    That is exactly and precisely how VCDL got guns in state parks attached to the National Fair Credit Reporting Act.

    In part, the argument will show a similarity of state laws vs public property. As others obey the law, so must they.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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