Looking at moving to the Seattle area

File for your CPL right away. I doubt it will take long at all to receive it. My Son got his in a week and my Sweet Baboo got hers in a month because they sent it to the wrong address. It will come quicker than you think. Good luck, and Welcome to the Great Northwest.

I intend to apply for my CPL as soon as I can after arriving, although it would help to establish a "permanent" residence first, rather than just crashing with my wife's cousins' families. My parents are hesitant for me to use their address in Spokane as a "permanent" address, for reasons that they haven't gone into.

At what point, specifically, will I legally be considered a Washington resident, and my Utah permit no longer be valid? I've read a variety of different things, ranging from the moment I enter the state with the intent to become a resident, to having to take affirmative actions, like registering to vote or buying a house/signing a lease.

grylnsmn said:

At what point, specifically, will I legally be considered a Washington resident, and my Utah permit no longer be valid?

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LMGTFY

http://dor.wa.gov/content/contactus/con_residdef.aspx

Short version: 1) get a Washington State license of [effectively] any kind with a Washington State address; 2) pay state or federal taxes, listing a Washington State address; 3) establish a domicile in Washington State. With regard to 3, the instant you sign a residential lease or take possession of residential property in Washington State you're a resident, and all that that implies. Do, please, note that many Washington State statutes require that you have been a resident for a certain period of time before you qualify for various benefits or privileges. Do, please, also note that, regardless of such residency tenure, you are a Washington State resident the instant you establish a residence, so your out-of-state license to carry is instantly invalid, regardless of your Washington State residency tenure.

()pen(arry said:

LMGTFY

http://dor.wa.gov/content/contactus/con_residdef.aspx

Short version: 1) get a Washington State license of [effectively] any kind with a Washington State address; 2) pay state or federal taxes, listing a Washington State address; 3) establish a domicile in Washington State. With regard to 3, the instant you sign a residential lease or take possession of residential property in Washington State you're a resident, and all that that implies. Do, please, note that many Washington State statutes require that you have been a resident for a certain period of time before you qualify for various benefits or privileges. Do, please, also note that, regardless of such residency tenure, you are a Washington State resident the instant you establish a residence, so your out-of-state license to carry is instantly invalid, regardless of your Washington State residency tenure.

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That page (which I found in my own research) isn't specifically helpful, because the only actual definition that they give is "if they take actions which indicate that they intend to live in this state on more than a temporary or transient basis". The rest indicates what they use to presume that you are a resident. Note also that they only state that the information there is for "sales and use tax purposes".

So, for example, if I am staying with my wife's cousins for a month (or maybe two), am I "Maintain[ing] a residence in Washington for personal use"? Or am I just a long-term house guest (as when my parents came to visit Virginia for a month)? Based on the criteria they give, as long as I don't get a Washington license of any kind (whether driver, hunting, fishing, or professional), I would not be presumed to be a resident "for sales and use tax purposes".

The Washington Department of Licensing gives a different list of how to establish residency.

Establish residency in WA

You are considered a WA resident when you do any of the following:

Register to vote
Receive state benefits
Get any WA state license at resident rates
Receive in-state tuition fees

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Based on that list, as long as I don't register to vote or get any state licenses until we can get settled (after my family arrives), I wouldn't have established residency, so my Utah permit would still be good until I take one of those steps. And, note that establishing residency is required before getting a drivers license.

And yet, I will be living and working in Washington with the intent to settle there permanently with my family, which would seem to meet the Department of Revenue's definition (if not their presumption).

It's a mess, and doesn't appear to be as cut-and-dried as a LMGTFY link would suggest. Hence, I asked the question.

Get a lawyer.

grylnsmn said:

It's a mess, and doesn't appear to be as cut-and-dried as a LMGTFY link would suggest. Hence, I asked the question.

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I may be a gray area. One could probably argue that since you accepted a job offer here that your intent is to move and maintain a residence here so you could already be considered a resident in someones view.

Like Ajetpiolet said, Get a Lawyer if you need to know for certain. Most of us are not lawyers and can only give you our opinion.

In my opinion, its typically safer to error on the side of caution. So given the argument I gave above: Facts are, you accepted a job position, you plan to move here (you already outlined that here on a public forum), I would classify you a resident as soon as you stepped foot back in the state.

grylnsmn said:

It's a mess, and doesn't appear to be as cut-and-dried as a LMGTFY link would suggest. Hence, I asked the question.

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Oh. You were expecting a clear-cut definition of something from law? Residency is a loose term in Washington State. The law basically says, "You know what we mean," and then expects you to know what they mean. If, for example, you were to be charged for carrying a concealed pistol, it would be up to you to prove that you had not established residency, and were therefore legally licensed with your Virginia or Utah licenses.

The reason I used the delightfully-snarky LMGTFY is because this explanation is readily available from a simple Google search if you actually use the search results instead of selectively filtering them looking for some clear-cut definition in state law which does not exist (nor does it in many states). The state presumes a reasonable person will know pornography when they see it, and they leave it to you to make sure you err on the safe side.

Simple version: if you want to carry concealed on your Virginia or Utah licenses, don't rent or buy an apartment or house, don't pay a utility bill on a Washington address, and don't get a Washington driver's license. If you want to get more nuanced than that, go spend money on a lawyer.

()pen(arry said:

Oh. You were expecting a clear-cut definition of something from law? Residency is a loose term in Washington State. The law basically says, "You know what we mean," and then expects you to know what they mean. If, for example, you were to be charged for carrying a concealed pistol, it would be up to you to prove that you had not established residency, and were therefore legally licensed with your Virginia or Utah licenses.

The reason I used the delightfully-snarky LMGTFY is because this explanation is readily available from a simple Google search if you actually use the search results instead of selectively filtering them looking for some clear-cut definition in state law which does not exist (nor does it in many states). The state presumes a reasonable person will know pornography when they see it, and they leave it to you to make sure you err on the safe side.

Simple version: if you want to carry concealed on your Virginia or Utah licenses, don't rent or buy an apartment or house, don't pay a utility bill on a Washington address, and don't get a Washington driver's license. If you want to get more nuanced than that, go spend money on a lawyer.

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Or, you know, I could have been asking for input from others who had possibly gone through the same process themselves in the past. In my experience, it never hurts to ask questions, but snarky answers can do a lot of harm, especially if you are trying to advocate in favor of something (such as Open Carry).

As it is, until I get my temporary living arrangements sorted out with my wife's cousins, I'm likely not going to be able to carry after I reach Spokane (as I don't know which cousins I'll be staying with and how they specifically would feel about my having my carry gun with me while I stay with them). I've been doing a good bit of research (such as identifying how I can legally store my firearms at my parents' house without having to legally transfer all of them twice through an FFL - I am having a safe shipped to them, and after I put them in there I will take both keys with me. If they have no access to them, and they're with the rest of my stuff in storage, then no transfer will have occurred as I understand the definition in RCW 9.41.010(24)). If I find that they are not opposed, I can always do a weekend trip back to my parents' in Spokane to recover one of my carry guns.

grylnsmn said:

Or, you know, I could have been asking for input from others who had possibly gone through the same process themselves in the past. In my experience, it never hurts to ask questions, but snarky answers can do a lot of harm, especially if you are trying to advocate in favor of something (such as Open Carry).

As it is, until I get my temporary living arrangements sorted out with my wife's cousins, (1) I'm likely not going to be able to carry after I reach Spokane (as I don't know which cousins I'll be staying with and how they specifically would feel about my having my carry gun with me while I stay with them). I've been doing a good bit of research (such as identifying how I can legally store my firearms at my parents' house (2) without having to legally transfer all of them twice through an FFL - I am having a safe shipped to them, and after I put them in there I will take both keys with me. If they have no access to them, and they're with the rest of my stuff in storage, then no transfer will have occurred as I understand the definition in RCW 9.41.010(24)). If I find that they are not opposed, I can always do a weekend trip back to my parents' in Spokane to recover one of my carry guns.

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1. HUH? why won't you be able to carry?

2. 1 squared? sorry this statement flat out confused me ~ legally transfer them via FFL?

Why i am so confused...

BTW...how did you get to Spokane since you stated you were taking a job in Seattle?

ipse

solus said:

1. HUH? why won't you be able to carry?

2. 1 squared? sorry this statement flat out confused me ~ legally transfer them via FFL?

Why i am so confused...

BTW...how did you get to Spokane since you stated you were taking a job in Seattle?

ipse

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1. I will be staying with one of my wife's cousins in the Seattle area. As I don't know what their views on me bringing a firearm into their home are, I will likely leave my carry gun with the rest of our firearms when I put them in storage (see #2 below). As a guest in their home (particularly for a prolonged period of a couple weeks), I am not about to go against their wishes and cause problems with my wife's family.

2. My parents live in Spokane (as mentioned in the original post as well as post #3), and I will be stopping there on my way to Seattle and leaving a variety of things (specifically things that the movers won't move, for various reasons) in storage at their house until we have our new housing arranged and my family can come out to join me. A previous reply pointed out the legal idiocy of RCW 9.41.113 (requiring all transfers, either permanent or temporary, to have a background check performed), and warned about being careful to jump through its hoops to not create a legal liability for either myself or my parents by accidentally transferring my firearms to them without a proper background check. Hence, the workaround I specified. It's a Washington-specific issue.

grylnsmn said:

1. I will be staying with one of my wife's cousins in the Seattle area. As I don't know what their views on me bringing a firearm into their home are, I will likely leave my carry gun with the rest of our firearms when I put them in storage (see #2 below). As a guest in their home (particularly for a prolonged period of a couple weeks), I am not about to go against their wishes and cause problems with my wife's family.

2. My parents live in Spokane (as mentioned in the original post as well as post #3), and I will be stopping there on my way to Seattle and leaving a variety of things (specifically things that the movers won't move, for various reasons) in storage at their house until we have our new housing arranged and my family can come out to join me. A previous reply pointed out the legal idiocy of RCW 9.41.113 (requiring all transfers, either permanent or temporary, to have a background check performed), and warned about being careful to jump through its hoops to not create a legal liability for either myself or my parents by accidentally transferring my firearms to them without a proper background check. Hence, the workaround I specified. It's a Washington-specific issue.

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have you asked their opinion?

i'm well versed on 594 auspices...but, what ownership transfer are you facilitating...no never mind, legal liability...just never mind...no....:banghead: :banghead:

ipse

grylnsmn said:

1. I will be staying with one of my wife's cousins in the Seattle area. As I don't know what their views on me bringing a firearm into their home are, I will likely leave my carry gun with the rest of our firearms when I put them in storage (see #2 below). As a guest in their home (particularly for a prolonged period of a couple weeks), I am not about to go against their wishes and cause problems with my wife's family.

2. My parents live in Spokane (as mentioned in the original post as well as post #3), and I will be stopping there on my way to Seattle and leaving a variety of things (specifically things that the movers won't move, for various reasons) in storage at their house until we have our new housing arranged and my family can come out to join me. A previous reply pointed out the legal idiocy of RCW 9.41.113 (requiring all transfers, either permanent or temporary, to have a background check performed), and warned about being careful to jump through its hoops to not create a legal liability for either myself or my parents by accidentally transferring my firearms to them without a proper background check. Hence, the workaround I specified. It's a Washington-specific issue.

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Honestly, well I can't tell you to break the law, but I would just store the guns in a box with the rest your stuff, unless you've already made enemies with the government of Spokane County then there's a greater chance you'll win the lottery then get jacked up for that.

Besides if you place the guns in a locked unmarked container among other locked and unmarked containers they are storing for you I don't even think that's a transfer. It has not been "delivered" to "them"

FYI: CPL might take a bit longer than usual, there's been a huge influx of applications leading to longer than normal lines, wait times and delivery. You can thank ISIS.


Sent from my UAV using Disposition Matrix 2.0

Geerolla said:

FYI: CPL might take a bit longer than usual, there's been a huge influx of applications leading to longer than normal lines, wait times and delivery. You can thank ISIS.


Sent from my UAV using Disposition Matrix 2.0

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thanks interesting to know there are backlogs in the system...

OH OP, for goodness sake apply for a bloody non residence conceal carry from your parents house...

get over yourself OP, this is not rocket science and the mountain you are making out of this activity is actually unbelievable.

ipse

Well,,,

grylnsmn said:

I intend to apply for my CPL as soon as I can after arriving, although it would help to establish a "permanent" residence first, rather than just crashing with my wife's cousins' families. My parents are hesitant for me to use their address in Spokane as a "permanent" address, for reasons that they haven't gone into.

At what point, specifically, will I legally be considered a Washington resident, and my Utah permit no longer be valid? I've read a variety of different things, ranging from the moment I enter the state with the intent to become a resident, to having to take affirmative actions, like registering to vote or buying a house/signing a lease.

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Wowwie!!! This started as a ,,, when can you get a CPL? To a " can you store your gun with mom and dad?


Forget ALL that!!! NO Matter where you visit, move to, or finally settle down, Or WHEN you do it,, it doesnt matter..
Their is no law restricting you owning and possessing guns in Washington state! ANYwhere!!!
Until you decide to apply then receive a CPL,, you will always be free to Open Carry without one!

solus said:

apply for a bloody non residence conceal carry

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There is no such thing in Washington State.

1245A Defender said:

Wowwie!!! This started as a ,,, when can you get a CPL? To a " can you store your gun with mom and dad?

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Actually, it started with me saying that we're looking to move there, giving a rough summary of what I had already found was different from Virginia according to my research, and asking what else I might need to know.

()pen(arry said:

There is no such thing in Washington State.

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TRULY ()? please holde on a sec & let me find and look in my wallet...ah there it is...

Well praise someone...somewhere...lookie there, there right in my wallet hiding behind my assortment of CC privilege card(s) is a duly issued, from WA's law enforcement support agency no less, with my NC name, NC addy & NC DL # on it, lies a permit which states in part: ... licensed to carry a concealed pistols as described by law....~ eh you get the gist by now!

and (), the evergreen state law enforcement group even got my hair color correct...BAL ~ rarity as most states do not have the capability to put bald in and hate putting 'baby pink' as a hair color.

i'm sorry, you were saying, what doesn't exist?

ipse

solus said:

TRULY ()? please holde on a sec & let me find and look in my wallet...ah there it is...

Well praise someone...somewhere...lookie there, there right in my wallet hiding behind my assortment of CC privilege card(s) is a duly issued, from WA's law enforcement support agency no less, with my NC name, NC addy & NC DL # on it, lies a permit which states in part: ... licensed to carry a concealed pistols as described by law....~ eh you get the gist by now!

and (), the evergreen state law enforcement group even got my hair color correct...BAL ~ rarity as most states do not have the capability to put bald in and hate putting 'baby pink' as a hair color.

i'm sorry, you were saying, what doesn't exist?

ipse

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I think he was taking your statement literally, saying there is no 'non residence conceal carry' permit, as there is no differentiation within the permits or the law, its still just a WA CPL.

solus said:

TRULY ()?

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slapmonkay said:

I think he was taking your statement literally, saying there is no 'non residence conceal carry' permit, as there is no differentiation within the permits or the law, its still just a WA CPL.

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See how hard that wasn't solus?

Washington does not have resident or non-resident CPLs. It has CPLs. Period.