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Thread: VA exceptions allowing firearms on VA school buses?

  1. #1
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    Question VA exceptions allowing firearms on VA school buses?

    According to VA code,
    "B. If any person knowingly possesses any firearm... while such person is upon... (iii) any school bus owned or operated by any such school, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony"...

    ... I thought that having a gun on a school bus in VA was an absolute no-no; but it appears to me now that all of the exceptions in that section apply to the entire section ("The provisions of this section shall not apply to..."), including on a bus?

    That would mean that,
    "(vi) a person who possesses an unloaded firearm that is in a closed container... in or upon a motor vehicle, or an unloaded shotgun or rifle in a firearms rack in or upon a motor vehicle"
    ...would be all right on the bus too?
    http://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/t...ion18.2-308.1/
    Click image for larger version. 

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    *I am not a lawyer. Nothing from me shall be construed as a magic cloak of legal advice. It's ultimately your tucas that's on the line. Keep examining the law anyway. The gov't, made up of people like us, is supposed to work for us, not against us. Let's find, correct, and avoid the wrongs before they're actively used against us, or we become innocently trapped by them. We're to be the masters. Let's vigilantly keep tabs on our servants who seek to rule us.

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Write us and let us know how that worked out.

    And Thursday is not pepper steak night.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Using the whole of the text is awfully handy to figure out what a law means. If you find something in the code that makes a school bus a personal, private motor vehicle or vessel then you may have a path.
    Last edited by jmelvin; 11-19-2015 at 05:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    If you find something in the code that makes a school bus a personal, private motor vehicle or vessel then you may have a path.
    Well, when I read this:
    I see illustrated that when they want to single out and differentiate
    personal
    private
    motor vehicles
    that they know how to do so...

    but as is, the exception I'm pointing to merely calls for a motor vehicle.
    Last edited by ChristCrusader; 11-19-2015 at 09:41 PM.
    *I am not a lawyer. Nothing from me shall be construed as a magic cloak of legal advice. It's ultimately your tucas that's on the line. Keep examining the law anyway. The gov't, made up of people like us, is supposed to work for us, not against us. Let's find, correct, and avoid the wrongs before they're actively used against us, or we become innocently trapped by them. We're to be the masters. Let's vigilantly keep tabs on our servants who seek to rule us.

  5. #5
    Regular Member HPmatt's Avatar
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    This reminds me of a Disc Jockey joke I heard in Houston growing up - "hire the Vet - you never know when you need a tailgunner for your beer truck..."

    Perhaps with young darlings riding school busses these days you w/b riding protecting the driver's back w a coachgun...


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  6. #6
    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
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    I'd suggest paying a competent attorney, licensed to practice in Virginia, now for their time to explain what the statute is saying. Doing so is much less expensive than the alternative
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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    This begs a question, if you don't mind.

    What about standing with your child or grandchild while they wait for their bus, then watching as they and the other children load on board? Is there anything in the law that precludes you from doing this while armed, open or concealed?
    Last edited by SouthernBoy; 11-20-2015 at 08:47 AM.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    This begs a question, if you don't mind.

    What about standing with your child or grandchild while they wait for their bus, then watching as they and the other children load on board? Is there anything in the law that precludes you from doing this while armed, open or concealed?
    From 18.2-308.1(B):
    If any person knowingly possesses any firearm designed or intended to expel a projectile by action of an explosion of a combustible material while such person is upon (i) any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds; (ii) that portion of any property open to the public and then exclusively used for school-sponsored functions or extracurricular activities while such functions or activities are taking place; or (iii) any school bus owned or operated by any such school, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony.
    Unless the school bus stop is on the school grounds, or the school bus location is used exclusively for school-sponsored functions or extracurricular activities that are taking place at that time, then there should be no problem. The law prohibits possession on a school bus, but not at a school bus stop.
    Alma 43:47 - "And again, the Lord has said that: Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed...."
    Self defense isn't just a good idea, it's a commandment.

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    But if your kid has complained of being bullied at the bus stop, do not go down there waving your gun around.

    http://www.richmond.com/archive/arti...ea3cc61ed.html

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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    Nothing really, EXCEPT…,

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    This begs a question, if you don't mind.

    What about standing with your child or grandchild while they wait for their bus, then watching as they and the other children load on board? Is there anything in the law that precludes you from doing this while armed, open or concealed?
    a horribly written, often purposely and hideously interpreted (against the citizen) brandishing statute, and then to compound the problem, it becomes even more and especially dubious if the bus driver simply "feels" that you have singled him out from the populace for no reason at all, and your only purpose for being there is to intimidate him and just generally ruin the rest of his day. Regardless of the FACTS!!!

    Of course, if you'd like to be another test case, I will be monitoring with great interest. Oh…, I don't mind at all, and good luck with that!

    sidestreet

    Jeremiah 29:11-13

    we are not equal, we will never be equal, but we must be relentless.

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    You can't be charged, arrested and tried for brandishing if all you are doing is standing somewhere with you handgun in the holster.

    But you can if pointing your finger causes someone to be more skeered for their life than they have ever been.

    There! Beat all y'all to it this time!

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    You can't be charged, arrested and tried for brandishing if all you are doing is standing somewhere with you handgun in the holster.

    But you can if pointing your finger causes someone to be more skeered for their life than they have ever been.

    There! Beat all y'all to it this time!

    stay safe.
    AND convicted.

    Wanna bet?? Well, I guess she was displaying "threatening behavior". What is threatening behavior? Standing around with a gun on your hip, to many.

    I agree with you, but never say never. We're pretty much doomed.

    http://www.richmond.com/archive/arti...ea3cc61ed.html

    "The judge said he doesn't have to find that Reed touched her gun to convict her. Her threatening behavior combined with carrying the gun reasonably induced fear in the children, a necessary ingredient for a finding of guilt."
    Last edited by Wstar425; 11-21-2015 at 02:22 PM.

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wstar425 View Post
    AND convicted.
    I guess you missed the reference to the ferry tale.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  14. #14
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    Yep, yep…,

    Quote Originally Posted by Wstar425 View Post
    AND convicted.

    Wanna bet?? Well, I guess she was displaying "threatening behavior". What is threatening behavior? Standing around with a gun on your hip, to many.

    I agree with you, but never say never. We're pretty much doomed.

    http://www.richmond.com/archive/arti...ea3cc61ed.html

    "The judge said he doesn't have to find that Reed touched her gun to convict her. Her threatening behavior combined with carrying the gun reasonably induced fear in the children, a necessary ingredient for a finding of guilt."
    yes you can. All of that. Of course I realize that much of Skid's comment was "tongue in cheek" even though his emoticon has its tongue sticking out, and you have to relate to the "Ferry Tale" and Scouser's horrible experience also. Point is, the "authorities" like to "pile on" and stretch the envelope to ridiculous lengths, have seemingly endless resources, nearly always have home field advantage, the many advantages associated with the old "home cooking" scheme, and rarely ever suffer any consequences for wrongful prosecution.

    In Skid's case, there was much physical exculpatory evidence "done away with" by the other principles involved, many mandated procedures not complied with by the other parties involved, hardly any favorable evidence except Skid's own testimony, and he prevailed, although not without extreme tribulation, expenses, and stress.

    Scouser on the other hand, had incredible (as in unable to be reasonably believed) evidence placed against him, had what I would consider extremely strong evidence for his innocence, yet was convicted, and is currently being appealed, and again, all not with extreme tribulation, expenses and stress.

    What's the point? I guess it's to pick your poison very carefully!

    sidestreet

    Jeremiah 29:11-13

    we are not equal, we will never be equal, but we must be relentless.

  15. #15
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grylnsmn View Post
    From 18.2-308.1(B):Unless the school bus stop is on the school grounds, or the school bus location is used exclusively for school-sponsored functions or extracurricular activities that are taking place at that time, then there should be no problem. The law prohibits possession on a school bus, but not at a school bus stop.
    That is what I thought. I should have looked this up myself so thanks for your response.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  16. #16
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    But if your kid has complained of being bullied at the bus stop, do not go down there waving your gun around.

    stay safe.
    That would definitely be a bad thing.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  17. #17
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sidestreet View Post
    a horribly written, often purposely and hideously interpreted (against the citizen) brandishing statute, and then to compound the problem, it becomes even more and especially dubious if the bus driver simply "feels" that you have singled him out from the populace for no reason at all, and your only purpose for being there is to intimidate him and just generally ruin the rest of his day. Regardless of the FACTS!!!

    Of course, if you'd like to be another test case, I will be monitoring with great interest. Oh…, I don't mind at all, and good luck with that!

    sidestreet

    Jeremiah 29:11-13

    we are not equal, we will never be equal, but we must be relentless.
    This would be one of the really good reasons to record the goings-on. However, there would be a host of witnesses there to hopefully aid you should some idiot bus driver decide to exact revenge on you for his misguided concepts. Anyway it wouldn't affect me since I most always conceal my sidearm nowadays.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  18. #18
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    Just wondering if you realized..,

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    This would be one of the really good reasons to record the goings-on. However, there would be a host of witnesses there to hopefully aid you should some idiot bus driver decide to exact revenge on you for his misguided concepts. Anyway it wouldn't affect me since I most always conceal my sidearm nowadays.
    that Scouser has and presented very good video evidence that showed that about 95% of the testimony and claims against him were and still are false and/or patently pretentious. Scouser was the proverbial "ham sandwich" that got convicted.

    I'm reminded of all the folks that thought "well, that couldn't happen to me", just before it happened to them.

    I'm done now, through with this thread.

    sidestreet

    Jeremiah 29:11-13

    we are not equal, we will never be equal, but we must be relentless.

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