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Thread: Bill to Allow Weapon Licenses as ID's at TSA checkpoints.

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    Regular Member DeSchaine's Avatar
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    Bill to Allow Weapon Licenses as ID's at TSA checkpoints.

    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/...ntcmp=obinsite


    Representative Diane Black from TN has put forth a bill that would allow those of us to use our CPL/CCW/etc as ID at TSA screening areas. Currently, weapon licenses are NOT allowed by TSA, in spite of the background checks and other crap you have to go through to get one. Another step in ending the discrimination shown us at so many turns.
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    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    I don't see this as a good thing. It only furthers the notion that we need permission to exercise a right. Plus I've never seen a permit with a picture. That'd be a lot of money each state would have to pay out to convert all permits.
    As Nightmare pointed out it also opens carriers up to a severe invasion of privacy.
    I'll stick to showing my DL thank you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by decklin View Post
    I don't see this as a good thing. It only furthers the notion that we need permission to exercise a right. Plus I've never seen a permit with a picture. That'd be a lot of money each state would have to pay out to convert all permits.
    As Nightmare pointed out it also opens carriers up to a severe invasion of privacy.
    I'll stick to showing my DL thank you.
    Utah has a pic on their permit.

    Not trying to say you're wrong, just giving a heads-up is all.
    Last edited by b0neZ; 11-25-2015 at 12:26 PM.

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    Regular Member Whitney's Avatar
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    Careful what you advocate

    If the requirement is a license or permit then it is not a right.

    So the premise here, provided legislation passed muster, you would be "allowed" to use the permit or license the government "allows" you to obtain in the exercise of your "right" to be used as valid ID at TSA check points.






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    Regular Member Whitney's Avatar
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    Poorly formed post

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    On what right are you commenting? There is no right to air travel. There is no right to security. There is no right to cross a border unmolested.

    Good call , Thank You; I did not completely form my thoughts and compose my post.

    My thought process was based around national licensing scheme or reciprocity.
    Thus eroding the right to bear arms (in public) and eventually requiring application and approval to exercise a right.

    Permitting schemes are the antithesis to our rights no matter how well intentioned.

    Why the hell do I need to show ID at the airport anyway if I have a boarding pass? OH yeah, that war on terror thing. /sarc.

    ~Whitney
    The problem with America is stupidity.
    I'm not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

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    I have used mine without issue at airports.
    Chuck Norris/Ted Nugent That's the ticket for 2016!

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    thanks but no thanks at using my nifty state level conceal permit card at a federal TSA checkpoint.

    being the cynic i am purported to be, so why do i wish to VOLUNTARILY contribute to TSA's compilation of those good citizens who hold permits to conceal a firearm?

    they want the info from the state on me...they can do so. I am not about to voluntarily givie it to them!!

    in fact, I do not even proffer my DL and instead use my passport.

    ya thank the nice legislators for their assistance to TSA as it sure as the devil doesn't save the citizen one iota of time.

    ipse
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    Should be just as good as any other government ID.
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    Considering you cannot be required to have an ID to travel inside the USA ... it is a meaningless load of drivel.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Considering you cannot be required to have an ID to travel inside the USA ... it is a meaningless load of drivel.
    so pray tell the august membership david what document that you are not required to proffer do you use to meet the nice TSA's criteria as outlined at their site: https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-...identification

    oh, there is a very specific comment...conceal handgun permits are not considered valid by TSA.

    TSA's real id pgm:

    here ya go david...pick a topic and please advise how you are going to fly anywhere in this great country after the first of the year:

    https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...rements%202016

    ipse
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    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Are we working to increase the utility of something we believe should not exist in the first place? Is that wise?
    Advocate freedom please

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    Should a permit be needed? No. Does the permit meet all of the listed requirements for an approved TSA ID? Yes. Thus I see such a law less as working to increase the utility of the permit and more as holding the TSA accountable and making them follow the law. While I didn't go look it up personally, below is the excerpt from the article showing why the TSA is likely not following the law by refusing to accept at least some/most permits (note that I don't know what is printed on all permits thus I can't say all meet these requirements).

    "...According to federal law, the criteria for a “verifying identity document” is “an unexpired document issued by a U.S Federal, State, or tribal government” that includes your full name, date of birth, and photograph..."

    So regardless of the fact that I disagree with needing the permit, given the info that's on both my NE and UT permits, why isn't it valid again?

  13. #13
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    Should a permit be needed? No. Does the permit meet all of the listed requirements for an approved TSA ID? Yes. snip...

    So regardless of the fact that I disagree with needing the permit, given the info that's on both my NE and UT permits, why isn't it valid again?
    uh, cuz the TSA says it isn't?

    as stated in the OPs initial post, according to TSA's website, A weapon permit is not an acceptable form of identification.

    https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-...identification
    "He who pays the piper calls the tunes..." (OBE as Grape called melody!!)

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  14. #14
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Word games, huh TSA? Well put this in your pipe and smoke it! Wisc. Stats. § 175.60  License to carry a concealed weapon.
    which means what to the masses?

    ipse
    "He who pays the piper calls the tunes..." (OBE as Grape called melody!!)

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    uh, cuz the TSA says it isn't?

    as stated in the OPs initial post, according to TSA's website, A weapon permit is not an acceptable form of identification.

    https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-...identification
    Thanks for the quote and link. I checked them. You are, of course, correct.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    TSA will apparently accept a credit card as identification = not government issued, no personal data, no address.

    BUT they wont accept a weapon permit which has been issued by the government AND has much personal identifying data.

    https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-...identification

    That must make sense to somebody, but I don't have a clue who that might be.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 11-26-2015 at 09:28 PM. Reason: fixed link
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    TSA will apparently accept a credit card as identification = not government issued, no personal data, no address.

    BUT they wont accept a weapon permit which has been issued by the government AND has much personal identifying data.

    https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-...identification

    That must make sense to somebody, but I don't have a clue who that might be.
    My reading of that would put such weapon licenses as alternate forms of ID, the same as credit cards, meaning two forms of alternates would be required. I also suspect travelers might be hassled unofficially for attempting it, but they meet that criteria.
    Last edited by MAC702; 11-26-2015 at 09:50 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    uh, cuz the TSA says it isn't?

    as stated in the OPs initial post, according to TSA's website, A weapon permit is not an acceptable form of identification.

    https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-...identification
    And as I stated, per the article there's already an outline as for what counts as ID for the federal government and the permit meets all of that. Thus the TSA is ignoring the law and making up their own rules (and even ignoring their own rules in regards to not accepting it as an alternate form of ID) by refusing to accept the permit. Which was my point. And to that the law proposed in the article would be nothing more than explicitly forcing them to accept something that already meets the law regarding ID.
    Last edited by Aknazer; 11-27-2015 at 02:28 AM.

  19. #19
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    And as I stated, per the article there's already an outline as for what counts as ID for the federal government and the permit meets all of that. Thus the TSA is ignoring the law and making up their own rules (and even ignoring their own rules in regards to not accepting it as an alternate form of ID) by refusing to accept the permit. Which was my point. And to that the law proposed in the article would be nothing more than explicitly forcing them to accept something that already meets the law regarding ID.
    i guess you missed OPs statement as well as others including the big bold statement on the cited TSA's webpage stating weapon permits are not acceptable?

    not sure how TSA is ignoring their own rules when their documentation specifically states permits are not acceptable form of identification?

    not sure where the confusion lies ?

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 11-27-2015 at 11:39 AM.
    "He who pays the piper calls the tunes..." (OBE as Grape called melody!!)

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    i guess you missed OPs statement as well as others including the big bold statement on the cited TSA's webpage stating weapon permits are not acceptable?

    not sure how TSA is ignoring their own rules when their documentation specifically states permits are not acceptable form of identification?

    not sure where the confusion lies ?

    ipse
    It lies in your own reading comprehension. I'll let you reread what I said a few times so that maybe you can come to understand it.

  21. #21
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    And as I stated, per the article there's already an outline as for what counts as ID for the federal government and the permit meets all of that. Thus the TSA is ignoring the law and making up their own rules (and even ignoring their own rules in regards to not accepting it as an alternate form of ID) by refusing to accept the permit. Which was my point. And to that the law proposed in the article would be nothing more than explicitly forcing them to accept something that already meets the law regarding ID.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    It lies in your own reading comprehension. I'll let you reread what I said a few times so that maybe you can come to understand it.
    guess i misread what you posted and I specifically commented to...

    ipse
    "He who pays the piper calls the tunes..." (OBE as Grape called melody!!)

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    https://law.resource.org/pub/us/case....04-15736.html

    ID not mandatory to fly. ^^^^


    http://www.papersplease.org/wp/mocek/

    ^^ another website discussing the bogus Mocek arrest and not guilty verdict upon motion to acquit...and other info
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 11-27-2015 at 03:52 PM.

  23. #23
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    https://law.resource.org/pub/us/case....04-15736.html

    ID not mandatory to fly. ^^^^ --snipped--
    Really?

    Conclusion
    In sum, we conclude that Defendants did not violate Gilmore's constitutional rights by adopting and implementing the airline identification policy. Therefore, his claims fail on the merits and we deny his petition for review.
    TRANSFERRED, PETITION DENIED.
    https://law.resource.org/pub/us/case....04-15736.html
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 11-27-2015 at 04:00 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Really?

    Conclusion
    In sum, we conclude that Defendants did not violate Gilmore's constitutional rights by adopting and implementing the airline identification policy. Therefore, his claims fail on the merits and we deny his petition for review.
    TRANSFERRED, PETITION DENIED.
    https://law.resource.org/pub/us/case....04-15736.html
    I fly w/o ID. Grape needs to re-read the opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    guess i misread what you posted and I specifically commented to...

    ipse
    You might have read it but that doesn't mean you comprehended it. Here let me break it down for you. If I were to say that all light in the 620-750nm range was red light, that would define red light. If I were to then arbitrarily say "oh but light at 698-703 doesn't count as red light" that would go against the definition of red light as it falls square in the middle.

    And that's effectively what's going on here. There's apparently the legal definition of Federal ID that they're going against, and on top of that they're violating their own rules in regards to alternate ID. The proposed law is to force them to recognize such a thing, much like correcting someone and saying "no, 698-703nm is still red light" would be. So this is less about expanding the privilege card (which would be akin to expanding red light to 620-755nm) and more about holding the agency to the rules and laws already defined.

    Hopefully that's clear/simple enough for you to actually comprehend what you read.

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