Legal Question

Hi guys-

Hoping someone in here can help me out with this question:

In the state of Florida, if you are pulled over in a traffic stop, and the officer asks the generic question "do you have any weapons in the car", are you required by law to answer that question in the affirmative? Or, do your 5th amendment rights exist at this point?

There can be 2 different times when he asks this question:

First, immediately when he walks up to you.
Second, after you hand him your driver's license and CWFL.

I'd like answers to both scenarios.

Thanks!

Nightmare said:

http://flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2013/Chapter790/All

Use your browser search function with what ever argument you think appropriate. Searching for " inform ", I got no affirmative hits.

The assertion of non-existence, as of NO requirement to inform, cannot be sustained except by examination of the entire universe of discussion, here Florida statutes, regulations, rules, procedures, and likely of all the counties.

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Thanks bud. I appreciate the assumption I'm retarded.

But I chose to ask the question here so I could start a discussion on it.

It was asserted in another forum that you are legally required to inform the officer you have a weapon in your vehicle, based upon the statute regarding producing your CWFL upon demand. Those are 2 different concepts.

hammer6 said:

Hi guys-

Hoping someone in here can help me out with this question:

In the state of Florida, if you are pulled over in a traffic stop, and the officer asks the generic question "do you have any weapons in the car", are you required by law to answer that question in the affirmative? Or, do your 5th amendment rights exist at this point?

There can be 2 different times when he asks this question:

First, immediately when he walks up to you.
Second, after you hand him your driver's license and CWFL.

I'd like answers to both scenarios.

Thanks!

Click to expand...

Might try answering the question with the question, " Why do you ask?" for starters.

Also might well depend on how much time you want to invest in a traffic stop.

hammer6 said:

Thanks bud. I appreciate the assumption I'm retarded.

But I chose to ask the question here so I could start a discussion on it.

It was asserted in another forum that you are legally required to inform the officer you have a weapon in your vehicle, based upon the statute regarding producing your CWFL upon demand. Those are 2 different concepts.

Click to expand...

grape, apparently your 'why do you ask' concept reveals there is /was an apparent oneupmanship agenda afoot...

ya know hammer, your query might have been better received if you had been forthcoming and provided your hidden agenda upfront along with your query.

further hammer, if you would assist your cause if you would provide the statute that was discussed in the "OTHER FORUM" for a starting point for those who might at this point in time actually care.

ipse

"[SIZE=-1]The licensee must carry the license, together with valid identification, at all times in which the licensee is in actual possession of a concealed weapon or firearm and must display both the license and proper identification upon demand by a law enforcement officer. Violations of the provisions of this subsection shall constitute a noncriminal violation with a penalty of $25, payable to the clerk of the court."
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...tute&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.06.html
[/SIZE]

A few questions:

What are the rules regarding loaded/unloaded car gun carry in FL?

Does the OP possess a Florida concealed carry license/permit?

Did the OP sign a statement indicating knowledge of Florida's concealed carry laws when he submitted his application for said license/permit?

Questions, questions.

Here's a monkey wrench: what if you cannot possess a firearm under state law? Then would you/ could you be required to inform? I think 5th amendment kicks in there.

Assuming the LEO "demands" a response and the law requires an acknowledgement if held ... perhaps because the guy is not a "permission slip" guy then that provision would not apply too.


A civil $25 fine ... who would bother with even paying?

hammer6 said:

Hi guys-

Hoping someone in here can help me out with this question:

In the state of Florida, if you are pulled over in a traffic stop, and the officer asks the generic question "do you have any weapons in the car", are you required by law to answer that question in the affirmative? Or, do your 5th amendment rights exist at this point?

There can be 2 different times when he asks this question:

First, immediately when he walks up to you.
Second, after you hand him your driver's license and CWFL.

I'd like answers to both scenarios.

Thanks!

Click to expand...

One is NEVER required to respond to inquires from LEO regarding the presence, absence or location of a firearm.
In the vast majority of situations, one may also lie in response to such a question. The only exceptions would apply to material facts surrounding a felony criminal investigation or a missing persons case - I can't even imagine why anyone would be talking to a LEO in those circumstances without an attorney present anyway.
Also it's unlawful to lie to a federal LEO.

The only notification requirement we have is the requirement to display one's CWFL upon demand of a LEO, after being lawfully detained. Failure/refusal to do so is not criminal in nature, rather a $25 administrative fine. By demand, I mean the LEO demand to see one's CWFL - "Do you have a CWFL?" does not count. He has to ask for it.

BB62 said:

A few questions:

What are the rules regarding loaded/unloaded car gun carry in FL?
Florida generally does not distinguish between loaded/unloaded.
Any person, not otherwise prohibited from possessing firearms under state or federal law may 'carry' a Securely Encased & concealed firearm in one's car with out need of a CWFL.

Does the OP possess a Florida concealed carry license/permit?
Irrelevant.

Did the OP sign a statement indicating knowledge of Florida's concealed carry laws when he submitted his application for said license/permit?
Irrelevant, but, Yes. It's on the application for a CWFL.

Questions, questions.

Click to expand...

notalawyer said:

One is NEVER required to respond to inquires from LEO regarding the presence, absence or location of a firearm.
In the vast majority of situations, one may also lie in response to such a question. The only exceptions would apply to material facts surrounding a felony criminal investigation or a missing persons case - I can't even imagine why anyone would be talking to a LEO in those circumstances without an attorney present anyway.
Also it's unlawful to lie to a federal LEO.

The only notification requirement we have is the requirement to display one's CWFL upon demand of a LEO, after being lawfully detained. Failure/refusal to do so is not criminal in nature, rather a $25 administrative fine. By demand, I mean the LEO demand to see one's CWFL - "Do you have a CWFL?" does not count. He has to ask for it.

Click to expand...

BB62 said:

A few questions:

What are the rules regarding loaded/unloaded car gun carry in FL?
Florida generally does not distinguish between loaded/unloaded.
Any person, not otherwise prohibited from possessing firearms under state or federal law may 'carry' a Securely Encased & concealed firearm in one's car with out need of a CWFL.

Does the OP possess a Florida concealed carry license/permit?
Irrelevant.

Did the OP sign a statement indicating knowledge of Florida's concealed carry laws when he submitted his application for said license/permit?
Irrelevant, but, Yes. It's on the application for a CWFL.

Questions, questions.

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The final two questions are absolutely relevant, and the allegedly unaware poster, along with your response, are too cute, by half.

I'll just leave it at this for the lurkers and those new to open and/or concealed carry: lying to a law enforcement officer, whether against the law or not, is a fool's game.

notalawyer could you embellish your response to BB62 a bit further and explain:

Florida generally does not distinguish between loaded/unloaded.

not sure i understand your use of 'generally' in reference to FL statutes as it concerns loaded or unloaded.

could you quantify this a bit so someone could discern when the 'generally' applys and when it doesn't while carrying a handgun ~ we are talking handgun here right notalawyer?

ipse

solus said:

notalawyer could you embellish your response to BB62 a bit further and explain:

Florida generally does not distinguish between loaded/unloaded.

not sure i understand your use of 'generally' in reference to FL statutes as it concerns loaded or unloaded.

could you quantify this a bit so someone could discern when the 'generally' applys and when it doesn't while carrying a handgun ~ we are talking handgun here right notalawyer?

ipse

Click to expand...

I said 'generally', to avoid getting into an in-depth discussion of the very limited situations where it becomes relevant. In the OP's case, it not, hence 'generally'.

I'm still not going to cite every situation where the difference matters, but I'll summarize it off the top of my head:
Carrying an unloaded firearm home from the place of purchase is legal, 'openly' or concealed, if it is in a 'secure wrapper'.
There's another one about 'unloaded' storage around minors.
And if memory serves one regarding enhanced penalties for committing a crime with a firearm 'loaded' with a large capacity magazine >20 rounds and maybe one more..but they generally don't apply in our day-to-day lives of 'carrying'.
Also there is no definition of loaded or unloaded in the statutes.

As for BB62's post...whether he thinks it a good idea or not, the law is quite clear:

In Florida, one is NEVER required to respond to inquires from LEO regarding the presence, absence or location of a firearm.
In the vast majority of situations, one may also lie in response to such a question. The only exceptions would apply to material facts surrounding a felony criminal investigation or a missing persons case - I can't even imagine why anyone would be talking to a LEO in those circumstances without an attorney present anyway.
Also it's unlawful to lie to a federal LEO.

Click to expand...

Any person, 18 and over, not otherwise prohibited from possessing firearms under state or federal law may 'carry' a Securely Encased & concealed firearm in one's car with out need of a CWFL.

Click to expand...

And since a CWFL is not needed, the relevance of his other two questions are indeed moot.



Oh, and to the OP: Why would you hand your CWFL to a LEO at a traffic stop?

notalawyer said:

--snipped--
Carrying an unloaded firearm home from the place of purchase is legal, 'openly' or concealed, if it is in a 'secure wrapper'.

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Point - me thinks a firearm in a secure wrapper is hardly carrying openly, though there is no law broken by concealing it under that provision either. The devil is in the details.

Grapeshot said:

Point - me thinks a firearm in a secure wrapper is hardly carrying openly, though there is no law broken by concealing it under that provision either. The devil is in the details.

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One would think....I suppose one could argue that a clear'wrapper' of some kind could be 'secure'...that's I why quoted openly. The statute that contains that wording exempts concealed and open carry without distinction.

The devil is in the details.

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Tell that to the Florida Legislature...I could go on for pages and pages where they (in many of their iterations) screwed up our firearms laws.

Is the 'wrapper' 'secured' if it is tied with a string? No definition of 'wrapper' or 'secure'.

Just one more little example: We have one statutory definition for "Concealed Weapon" and another for "Weapon" with a significant difference: The inclusion or absence of the term knife. Then in the penal statute they use the text like:carries a concealed weapon on or about his or her person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree. So do they mean the term "Concealed Weapon" or a "Weapon" that is concealed?
:banghead:

solus said:

grape, apparently your 'why do you ask' concept reveals there is /was an apparent oneupmanship agenda afoot...

ya know hammer, your query might have been better received if you had been forthcoming and provided your hidden agenda upfront along with your query.

further hammer, if you would assist your cause if you would provide the statute that was discussed in the "OTHER FORUM" for a starting point for those who might at this point in time actually care.

ipse

Click to expand...

my hidden agenda? i don't have a hidden agenda. i'm asking a question in order to start a discussion. because, that's how information is discovered, ya know, through communicating.

i hinted at the statute by mentioning producing a license upon demand.

Nightmare said:

Is there a statute requiring production of a CWFL on demand or not? If so, please cite it (Rule 5). I cited and linked to Chapter 790, and searched it for the term inform and saw no requirement there at Chapter 790.

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i'm not talking about a CWFL. i'm talking about a firearm. plain and simple.