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Thread: Michigan Firearm and Self Defense News

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    Regular Member DeSchaine's Avatar
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    Michigan Firearm and Self Defense News

    Dec. 01, 2015

    So, county gun boards have been abolished in Michigan. Now you apply at the county clerk, get a background check from MSP and are either approved or denied.

    Also, Snyder signed a bill letting Prison guards and retired parole officers carry in GFZ's. More additions to the "elite" group.

    Early in November, Ann Arbor Sen. Rebekah Warren intorduced SB 611, basically a repeal of Michigans "Self Defense Act." If passed and signed, this will wipe away current protections for people that use deadly force in self defence.

    Meanwhile, the idiotic legislation known as SB 442 has been sitting in the state senate since Oct. 15, with about a 50-50 chance of being signed, as is. This would allow Concealed Carry in GFZ's by properly licensed individuals, but eliminate Open Carry.
    Guard with jealous attention the public liberty.
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    Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force.
    Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined.
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    If they repeal the self defense act does it then go to common law right to self defense?

    Anyone ask this during any committee meetings?

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    I'd sure hate to depend on common law principles to keep me out of jail, when common law is whatever the judges say it is, and people like this wear black robes in Michigan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by taxman View Post
    I'd sure hate to depend on common law principles to keep me out of jail, when common law is whatever the judges say it is, and people like this wear black robes in Michigan.
    Courts and judges hate the first amendment ! I can recall several others doing similar stuff ... all never have been found guilty of anything.

    I testify to legislative committees ... and advise people to nullify their stupid laws that they want to pass...when that timer buzzer goes off, I'm hurried off of providing any more testimony.

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    Regular Member esq_stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    If they repeal the self defense act does it then go to common law right to self defense?
    Repealing this could CHANGE common law. The legislative record could be interpreted to imply that rather than a rebuttable presumption of self defense, the legislature wants a greater burden on the defendant in order to assert self defense. Imagine also that repeal could imply that the legislature intends that there be a duty to retreat where there was no such duty in common law before. I can see no good and all bad coming from repeal.

    The people that advocate this bill must be mentally ill or defective.

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    Quote Originally Posted by esq_stu View Post
    The people that advocate this bill must be mentally ill or defective.
    Supporters come from both ends of the political spectrum. Let's call it Bipartisan Cooperation.
    Progressives want job safety measures for criminals.
    Law and order conservatives want to make it easier for police and prosecutors to put people in prison.

    It's a win-win, I tell ya.

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    Regular Member DeSchaine's Avatar
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    Well, 2016 is here, and since the last update, not a lot has happened.

    SB's 611 and 442 are still bogged down (thank God. Horrid pieces of legislation). Let your reps know what you think of these bills. Links to the bills in the OP.

    Conflicting rulings in the Clio and Ann Arbor school district OC cases have yet to be resolved. Courts are probably waiting on that idiotic 442.

    Keon Allison, the Detroit pastor that shot a 25 yr old man in self defense in Oct., will not be charged according to the Wayne County prosecutors.

    Gun Free Zone rules were twice shown to be a joke when students at Gull Lake High School and Kalamazoo's Maple Street Magnet School (a middle school) brought banned weapons into the buildings. A real firearm in Gull lake and a BB gun in Kalamazoo.

    A Port Huron Man was able to defend himself and his beagle against another, larger mix breed dog. Police are seeking a misdemeanor "dog at large" charge against the mixed breed owner.

    Julie Mack of MLive continues her barely disguised anti gun agenda by trying to demonize CPL holders in her so called articles.
    Guard with jealous attention the public liberty.
    Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel.
    Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force.
    Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeSchaine View Post
    Well, 2016 is here, and since the last update, not a lot has happened.

    SB's 611 and 442 are still bogged down (thank God. Horrid pieces of legislation). Let your reps know what you think of these bills. Links to the bills in the OP.

    Maybe it's just me, but would it be better to allow conceal carry in these GFZ's instead of having the school go into lock down and the cops called on you?

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    Or Marxists




    Quote Originally Posted by esq_stu View Post
    Repealing this could CHANGE common law. The legislative record could be interpreted to imply that rather than a rebuttable presumption of self defense, the legislature wants a greater burden on the defendant in order to assert self defense. Imagine also that repeal could imply that the legislature intends that there be a duty to retreat where there was no such duty in common law before. I can see no good and all bad coming from repeal.

    The people that advocate this bill must be mentally ill or defective.

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    Quote Originally Posted by REPR View Post
    Maybe it's just me, but would it be better to allow conceal carry in these GFZ's instead of having the school go into lock down and the cops called on you?
    It would be better to NOT create a law that would be the first law to restrict OPEN CARRY!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MI_XD View Post
    It would be better to NOT create a law that would be the first law to restrict OPEN CARRY!
    OPEN CARRY is already restricted by MCL 750.234d to those with a valid CPL. I agree that it would be better not to create the first law that would BAN open carry in Michigan; it would be much better to simply repeal MCL 28.425o and de-criminalize concealed carry while leaving open carry intact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanS View Post
    OPEN CARRY is already restricted by MCL 750.234d to those with a valid CPL.
    I had to read that sentence a second time to see that you did not misspeak.
    Last edited by taxman; 01-07-2016 at 06:53 AM.

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    Regular Member MI_XD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanS View Post
    OPEN CARRY is already restricted by MCL 750.234d to those with a valid CPL. I agree that it would be better not to create the first law that would BAN open carry in Michigan; it would be much better to simply repeal MCL 28.425o and de-criminalize concealed carry while leaving open carry intact.
    Thank you for FIFM.

    +1000 on the rest!

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Or better yet, simply pass constitutional carry, and do away with those "mythical" gun free zones, which have sadly been proven time & time again nothing more than a target rich environment, provided by the states, for lunatics....

    Trusting your safety to a GFZ, is akin to erecting a large neon sign in your front yard that says: Warning this home is protected by Unicorns & Pixie dust!
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    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

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    Regular Member DeSchaine's Avatar
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    January, 2016

    Village of Constantine city council president proposes "symbolic" assault weapons ban. That's going nowhere fast, and I'd be surprised if she wasn't defeated in the next local election. The idea was hammered heavily by the public at two different village meetings. On a related and surprising note, WWMT actually managed to do some research and get facts right for once when they reminded viewers that MI is a pre-empted state.

    Carson City-Crystal Area Schools have put into place instructions for school administrators on how to deal with OC'ers. Step in the right direction for MI. If only more will follow suit.

    SB 0442 is still in legislative limbo. No action on it since Oct. of 2015. Here's hoping that the second most idiotic bill in Lansing right now dies a quiet death.

    And the MOST idiotic bill in Lansing, Rebekah Warren's SB 0611 is hopefully dying in that same limbo. Someone get her recalled. She's trying to take your right to self defense away.

    In odd news, a very rare Pro Gun article on Mlive. Outlining a couple of businesses that are pro carry. There's also a link to a survey there, about if you would be more or less inclined to patronize a pro gun business. Please vote.

    Both the Ann Arbor Schools and Clio Area Schools cases are stacked up in MI Appeals no-mans-land. No action on either since December.
    Last edited by DeSchaine; 02-07-2016 at 02:10 PM.
    Guard with jealous attention the public liberty.
    Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel.
    Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force.
    Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined.
    -Patrick Henry, Virginia Ratification Convention, June 5, 1788

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    Today news about MI carry: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ4wi_fiqco

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    Regular Member DeSchaine's Avatar
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    From 2/8 to 2/12 WWMT, the south west Michigan CBS station, will be running some sort of look at guns in Michigan. Monday, the "I-Team" will be "exposing a loophole for purchasing guns" during the 11pm broadcast. I urge any and all of the MI crowd that can get that station tune in, watch and then call and blast them for whatever wrong information they're going to have. How do I know it's going to be wrong? Well, because it's WWMT, that's how. It's their job to screw things up.
    Last edited by DeSchaine; 02-07-2016 at 10:11 PM.
    Guard with jealous attention the public liberty.
    Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel.
    Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force.
    Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined.
    -Patrick Henry, Virginia Ratification Convention, June 5, 1788

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeSchaine View Post
    From 2/8 to 2/12 WWMT, the south west Michigan CBS station, will be running some sort of look at guns in Michigan. Monday, the "I-Team" will be "exposing a loophole for purchasing guns" during the 11pm broadcast. I urge any and all of the MI crowd that can get that station tune in, watch and then call and blast them for whatever wrong information they're going to have. How do I know it's going to be wrong? Well, because it's WWMT, that's how. It's their job to screw things up.
    This is going on with news stations across the country, the Phoenix CBS station kpHO recently did a spin piece on legal private sales (trying really hard to make them look illegal) and shady. Just more brain washing of the public in prep for more Bloomberg (big $$$$$ backed) ballot initiatives to put up for votes this November election cycle.
    Last edited by FreeInAZ; 02-13-2016 at 11:39 AM.
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    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

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    Regular Member DeSchaine's Avatar
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    February, 2016

    A little bit going on with some important bills, some incidents of law abiding owners doing the right thing, and a tragedy.

    Firstly, HB 5304, a bill that would remove the need for a CPL when carrying concealed. Highly controversial, but a great thing for legal gun owners all over the state.

    Then there is HB 4795, a great bill that adds teeth to the preemption statute by putting penalties in place for local units of government that knowingly and willfully violate it.

    A valet at a GM property intervened in an attempted murder, saving the victim and holding the attacker for police. He was subsequently fired, then un-fired, by the company contracted by GM for the valet service. PR concerns, no doubt.

    On the darker side, a serial or spree shooting occurred in Kalamazoo on the 20th. Six people were killed and two more wounded in three separate shootings by the same man. Supposedly, he had purchased his firearms legally.

    Now for the slanted media...

    MLive continues it's despicable trend of promoting anti-gun views by trying to make a big deal of the number of women killed in firearm related domestic violence cases even though we rank generally between 10th and 20th place in the country. Is it an issue? Sure. Is there a good fix? Hasn't been found yet.

    And WWMT kept up its tradition of not letting facts get int he way of it's fear mongering with this report on the elimination of county gun boards. Unsurprisingly, I never got a response to the email I sent them pointing out their errors, nor did they fix the article or make a retraction. Typical.
    Guard with jealous attention the public liberty.
    Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel.
    Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force.
    Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined.
    -Patrick Henry, Virginia Ratification Convention, June 5, 1788

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    Regular Member DeSchaine's Avatar
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    March Lansing BS:

    Democrats continue to try and violate peoples rights without due process. Robert Wittenberg, D-Oak Park, and Sam Singh, D-East Lansing intro'd HB 5443, a bill designed to strip people of their 2A rights just for being on some idiotic watch list.

    Several news items from SW and other areas in MI:

    Gun Free School Zones continue to work wonderfully. Student at Phoenix HS (alternative) in Kalamazoo takes a gun to school then runs from cops. Yep, those laws work so well.

    Mount Forest Township woman stops burglars with her firearm. She didn't shoot them, but they didn't get anywhere in her home.

    OCers at a Womans Expo in GR told to leave. If the DeVos Place is funded, even in part, by public funds, this is going to result in a huge problem for the city. More than that, they showed their acceptance of preventing women from defending themselves with the best means possible. Way to go GR.

    KRESA goes stupid at parent carrying a firearm at three school events. Only at last TWO of those was he singled out, escorted around by a cop AND an administrator, and the school placed into lockdown. Consideration needs to be given about a possible lawsuit here, teach Kalamazoo Public Schools a lesson. Related, at a later meeting, parents proved the high level of brainwashing going on and the effectiveness of it. The 2A community needs to step up the efforts to combat this.
    Last edited by DeSchaine; 04-05-2016 at 05:04 PM.
    Guard with jealous attention the public liberty.
    Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel.
    Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force.
    Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined.
    -Patrick Henry, Virginia Ratification Convention, June 5, 1788

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    Regular Member DeSchaine's Avatar
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    So, the news from April....

    HB 4795 is going for committee vote Wed. Call the reps on THIS LIST and tell them THIS MUST PASS! This adds teeth to the preemption laws by providing penalties.

    Also, SB's 0442 and 0611 (2015 on both) are still hung in legislative limbo. Still hoping they die there.

    Jon Hoadley (D) held a forum at the Kalamazoo Public Library. Supposedly to promote his "common sense" gun laws, which we all know is Anti code for more control. Not much ever came of it, but his idiotic bills are still in a holding pattern in the legislature.

    All this when permit applications in Kalamazoo are at their highest levels.

    Child of OC parent has been bullied by the Kalamazoo Public Schools. All of the other students in her class have been transferred out. She finished out her class time alone. KPS allowed it to happen, if not openly encouraged it. Pathetic.

    In other bully news, Grand Rapids/Kent County may be in trouble after the confrontation at the Michigan Womans Expo at DeVos Place. The Grand Rapids-Kent County Convention/Arena Authority (CAA) owns DeVos and is a publicly funded entity. Go figure. Here's hoping that MGO and MOC sue the pants off GR/KC.

    On April 13th, a couple hundred gun owners descended on Lansing for a 2nd Amendment march. Key speaker for the day was CJ Grisham, President of Open Carry Texas. Was kinda cold at first, but warmed up nicely in the afternoon. Also Detroit weapons instructor Rick Ector told the rousing story of the Battle of Athens. If you don't know it, you should. The only dark cloud of the matter was that some asshat keyed the truck being used to pull the MGO trailer. Some people are just jackasses.

    Of course, both MLive and my local news, WWMT News 3 either IGNORED or totally FAILED to garner the point of the march. Idiotic media is at it as usual. But somehow they decided to run the story about Alabama 11 yr old Chris Gaither. Wtf.




    Got a news story I missed? Info on bills in the legislature? Hit me with a PM and it'll be in next months post.
    Guard with jealous attention the public liberty.
    Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel.
    Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force.
    Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined.
    -Patrick Henry, Virginia Ratification Convention, June 5, 1788

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    Regular Member DeSchaine's Avatar
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    May happenings:

    Ann Arbor Schools Close for Voting May 3rd. All because they were unsure how to enforce their no guns policy that is illegal under MI law.

    Robert Wittenberg, D-Oak Park is seeking to punish those who fail a background check. Just how many people that go to a store fail a background check? I'm pretty sure that most people who are going to fail the BGC know it and already seek to get firearms by other means.

    Teens stole a gun from a car and caused a lockdown. Yeah, I see that GFZ stuff working really well there. Also, we as gun owners need to stop and take a lesson about NOT LEAVING YOUR GUN IN YOUR CAR UNSECURED!!!

    Kalamazoo County declines to recognize Gun Violence Day. Thats ok, the Bloomberg Mommies did their little march in the city. and of course Julie Mack spreads her supporting lies while pretending to be a journalist.

    Flushing HS violates students rights and kicks him out of school for wearing an NRA shirt. He's the captain of the schools Skeet Shooting team.

    No real movement on HB 4795, SB 442 or SB 611. Hopefully the first passes despite all the lies being flung around, and the other two fade away.
    Guard with jealous attention the public liberty.
    Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel.
    Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force.
    Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined.
    -Patrick Henry, Virginia Ratification Convention, June 5, 1788

  23. #23
    Regular Member DeSchaine's Avatar
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    Nothing of any real note to report that happened in June other than a bill introduced to ban guns on drones. Despite the fact that it was introduced by Rep. Hoadley of Kalamazoo, its one bill that makes sense on the surface.

    Other than that, a pretty quiet month in the state.
    Guard with jealous attention the public liberty.
    Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel.
    Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force.
    Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined.
    -Patrick Henry, Virginia Ratification Convention, June 5, 1788

  24. #24
    Regular Member DeSchaine's Avatar
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    Legislative News:

    No action on SB's 611 or 442, or HB 5443. Looks like they're off to the useless bill graveyard. HB's 4795 and 5304 also seem to be on hold. We need those two to pass.


    Legal Issues:

    No movement on either the Clio or Ann Arbor school cases since 5/31/16 according to the courts website.

    Possibility of another case in this incident. Funny thing, no where in the MI firearms laws does it state you have to inform or provide proof to THE SCHOOL. District policy in this case is totally moot, as they constitute a "local unit of government" and are therefore subject to 123.1102, Ann Arbor case be damned.


    Self Defense:

    Never underestimate the elderly. Just because they look old doesn't mean they won't drop you to the pavement if you threaten them.
    Guard with jealous attention the public liberty.
    Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel.
    Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force.
    Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined.
    -Patrick Henry, Virginia Ratification Convention, June 5, 1788

  25. #25
    Regular Member DeSchaine's Avatar
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    The Anti's continue their willfully ignorant, idiotic attacks on firearms. Led by the uber firearm hateful Julie Mack, MLive pounded out a few articles.

    One concerned the apparent high number of suicides in the U.P.. Of course, they blame it on the gun, totally disregarding the fact that it's a TOOL not a living being whispering in peoples ears. A person can just as readily cut a wrist, get drunk and take pills or drive a car into a tree. Let me say it again, just in case some of the dolts who write this drivel didn't hear me: GUNS DO NOT CAUSE A PERSON TO BE SUICIDAL!

    Another article covered a "die in" at the state capitol to raise awareness on the need to have hearings for "gun sense" legislation. The article states about 40 people showed up, though the pictures make it look like a much more paltry number. It certainly pales in comparison to the 2nd Amendment Rally held in the same spot several months ago where over a hundred people showed up even though it was frigid.

    In better news, Donald Trump released a list of candidates he would like to see to fill the Supreme Court opening. [http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/...river_home]One of those on the list is Michigan Supreme Court Chief Justice Robert P. Young Jr.[/url] He joins two other Michigan names: Justice Joan Larsen (also of the MSC) and Judge Raymond Kethledge (currently sitting on the US 6th Circuit). He authored the majority opinion in the Wayne County v. Hathcock case that put a clamp on the use of eminent domain in Michigan, as well as the MSC advisory opinion on the requirement of photo identification before voting.
    Guard with jealous attention the public liberty.
    Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel.
    Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force.
    Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined.
    -Patrick Henry, Virginia Ratification Convention, June 5, 1788

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