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Thread: James City County officer tells me open carry age is 21

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    James City County officer tells me open carry age is 21

    Hey guys, I am new to this site and I am sure ill be an active member.
    I know that the legal age to open carry a pistol is 18, and with that being said I asked a James City County officer the legal age and he told me 21 with the quote "if you cant buy it, you cant carry it". Private sales are legal at 18 I know. I was just wondering if anyone knew where I could find in words that 18 is the legal age. I would like to print this out and carry it along with me to ensure I don't get falsely arrested. I am enlisting in the Army soon and I don't need the headache of my record having ay kind of blemish on it. Thank you guys for any info you can provide me!
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 12-10-2015 at 04:56 AM. Reason: Fixed title

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    Sorry! I miss typed in the title. Officer said legal age to carry is 21


    --Moderator fixed title--
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 12-10-2015 at 04:57 AM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Welcome to OCDO.

    There is no open carry law/statute in Virginia. It is the absence of any law forbidding OC that leaves it legal.
    http://johnpierceesq.com/demystifying-the-age-to-acquire-possess-and-carry-handguns-in-virginia/

    I would not bother printing out statutes to "hold court" on the street. Instead buy and carry a good digital recorder to capture any important dialog.

    BTW - we don't recommend asking a LEO for a legal opinion. They are too often wrong and are not obligated to be truthful in any event.

    Most Va LEOs are quite aware that OC is legal at 18yo, so I wouldn't be much concerned; however, you might want to follow up on the officer's statement with a complaint/request that he be properly trained on the subject.


    Another thread on the same subject:
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ry-In-Virginia
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 12-10-2015 at 05:35 AM. Reason: added
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    He should be asking for the cop to be fired, not re-trained. He received training and all citizens are expected to know the laws that they are subjected to, why are cops different?

    He is a danger to society.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    He should be asking for the cop to be fired, not re-trained. He received training and all citizens are expected to know the laws that they are subjected to, why are cops different?

    He is a danger to society.
    Way too anti LEO IMO. Would rather see him reeducated than lose his job.

    BTW - the officer broke no laws - he passed on misinformation.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Either we are equal or we are not. A public servant is immune to the consequences of lying to his public master.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Way too anti LEO IMO. Would rather see him reeducated than lose his job.

    BTW - the officer broke no laws - he passed on misinformation.
    Would rather see another in his place that follows the law.

    How many times have courts said that gun owners have a extra responsibility to know and understand laws that relate to gun? Many times. Assuming that is true, then termination is the only way to insure or minimize the possibility that he will not kill a LAC.

    Its not anti-LEO, as another LEO would take his place.

    I have fired employees who failed to use their knowledge and this failure may have resulted in deaths.

    Here you have an employee who presumably knows that the guy can carry but states that he cannot. What other laws does this employee want to re-write?

    You can instruct workers for knowledge but not to change behavioral patterns. An employee who thinks he can bend or change the rules will continue to do so even after being re-educated as its a behavioral trait and not a lack of knowledge issue.

    Termination is the only way to insure that innocent people are not killed by the state.

    He has no right to being a cop. He would be free to pursue life, liberty, and happiness.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 12-10-2015 at 12:48 PM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Would rather see another in his place that follows the law.

    How many times have courts said that gun owners have a extra responsibility to know and understand laws that relate to gun? Many times. Assuming that is true, then termination is the only way to insure or minimize the possibility that he will not kill a LAC.

    Its not anti-LEO, as another LEO would take his place.

    I have fired employees who failed to use their knowledge and this failure may have resulted in deaths.

    Here you have an employee who presumably knows that the guy can carry but states that he cannot. What other laws does this employee want to re-write?

    You can instruct workers for knowledge but not to change behavioral patterns. An employee who thinks he can bend or change the rules will continue to do so even after being re-educated as its a behavioral trait and not a lack of knowledge issue.

    Termination is the only way to insure that innocent people are not killed by the state.

    He has no right to being a cop. He would be free to pursue life, liberty, and happiness.
    Repeat - he did not beak the law.

    Not anti LEO, because another LEO would take his place - really? You didn't write the rule(s) yet you presume to tell me what they are/mean?

    You presume too much and it is absurd to say that "Termination is the only way to insure that innocent people are not killed by the state."

    I'm not sure that your reply (quoted above) constitutes a rant, but I will tell you it stops here. Any questions?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Repeat - he did not beak the law.

    Not anti LEO, because another LEO would take his place - really? You didn't write the rule(s) yet you presume to tell me what they are/mean?

    You presume too much and it is absurd to say that "Termination is the only way to insure that innocent people are not killed by the state."

    I'm not sure that your reply (quoted above) constitutes a rant, but I will tell you it stops here. Any questions?
    He actually did nudge a law pretty hard Grapeshot. LEO'S are not allowed to give legal advice under the UPL rules.
    But then again...he didn't claim to be a lawyer like some do, and are not, so it's minor.
    I agree...educate him, perhaps through his supervisor. He'll be a better cop if it takes.

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    If the cop was telling you what he thought the law is as a matter of his own personal opinion, then he was exercising his right to free speech, even if he was lying at the time. If, on the other hand, he was telling you what the law is as a matter of fact, with the expectation that you will conform your behavior to his pronouncements on the subject, then he was engaging in the practice of law, which is a class one misdemeanor if he had no license to do so. You could sue him for legal malpractice and probably violation of the Virginia Consumer Protection Act.

    But here's the simple answer: Article 1, section 13 of the Va. Constitution says you have a right to arm yourself for personal defense (among other reasons). That right is circumscribed by a statute, Va. Code section 18.2-308.7, which says that if you're not at least eighteen or one of the exceptions listed in the statute applies, you're prohibited from being in possession of a handgun or "assault firearm". That has nothing to do with ownership, you can be three years old and own all sorts of firearms, but you can't be in possession (and it would be a felony for someone to sell it to you, but that's their problem, not yours). You have to be 21 to buy from a licensed dealer, and you have to be 21 to get a concealed carry permit.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Young officer needs retraining. Experienced officer needs to be called on the carpet.

    http://www.ca6.uscourts.gov/opinions...5a0092p-06.pdf
    While the dispatcher and motorcyclist may not have known the details of Ohio’s open-carry firearm law, the police officer had no basis for such uncertainty. If it is appropriate to presume that citizens know the parameters of the criminal laws, it is surely appropriate to expect the same of law enforcement officers—at least with regard to unambiguous statutes. Heien v. North Carolina, 135 S. Ct. 530, 540 (2014).
    Gun rights is not an obtuse characterization of perception or intellect. Guns rights have been around a long long time. No excuse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Way too anti LEO IMO. Would rather see him reeducated than lose his job.

    BTW - the officer broke no laws - he passed on misinformation.
    ...ah! the Heien defense...or, a purposeful misleading.

    Nope, fire the cop!...post Heien.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    When I went through the academy (1997), no one ever mentioned open carry, let alone explained it.
    James Reynolds

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    This has no direct bearing on the courts in Virginia - Va is not in the 6th circuit.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    This has no direct bearing on the courts in Virginia - Va is not in the 6th circuit.
    The principal does since it is based on Heien v. North Carolina, 135 S. Ct. 530, 540 (2014) a USSC decision that does apply to your state.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    The principal does since it is based on Heien v. North Carolina, 135 S. Ct. 530, 540 (2014) a USSC decision that does apply to your state.
    Ay yes - I need to brush up. Thanks.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Ay yes - I need to brush up. Thanks.
    Also, other states' opinions could have weight .... courts are not limited to looking at only their state case law; if its applicable the courts will give them the weight that they wish to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    When I went through the academy (1997), no one ever mentioned open carry, let alone explained it.
    The only thing they teach cadets now is to insure that they go home at the end of their shift...

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    The only thing they teach cadets now is to insure that they go home at the end of their shift...
    Got a cite for this?
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    Got a cite for this?
    See academy manuals ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    The only thing they teach cadets now is to insure that they go home at the end of their shift...
    Something wrong with that?
    James Reynolds

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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    Something wrong with that?
    Just hoping for something about a state or federal constitution, innocent until proven guilty, or due process would be hoped for! FTR, I have no problem with officers going home safe and sound at the end of their shifts, just would like SOME acknowledgement that this ISN'T the only goal.
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
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    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

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    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    The only thing they teach cadets now is to insure that they go home at the end of their shift...
    Something wrong with that?
    yes, should be "ENSURE"
    JFT 96

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    The only thing they teach cadets now is to insure that they go home at the end of their shift...
    Quote Originally Posted by scouser View Post
    yes, should be "ENSURE"
    ASSURE might be a better choice.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Insure v. ensure v. assure - read 'em and weap.

    Assure means "to promise" or "to state with confidence": "I assure you that we will be on time." "I can assure you that nobody in this class will fail."

    Ensure and insure are used interchangeably to mean "to make certain." However, some authorities (including this writer) insist upon using only ensure in this sense, restricting insure to matters of legal and financial protection (i.e., to protect against loss). Thus, these authorities would prefer ensure in: "A good outline will help to ensure that an essay is well organized" and "We take every step to ensure that products are of the highest quality." Most references state, however, that either insure or ensure could be used in these sentences.

    Insure is always used when matters of legal and financial protection (i.e., insurance) are involved: "In New Jersey, it is expensive to insure a car." "The young model wanted to insure her elderly husband's life for one million dollars."
    http://www.grammarmudge.cityslide.co...92333/8556.htm
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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