Post your TX Open Carry experiences here!

notalawyer · Feb 5, 2016

stealthyeliminator said:
[strike]My problem is that you said "(too tired to go look up the penal code)" meaning everything else that you were saying might or might not be even applicable, but there's nothing in it that leads me to be able to determine whether or not it is. I don't know how to look up in the penal code whether or not what you're saying is applicable. If you do, awesome, but you didn't... So yes, I am frustrated that you would suggest something might be the case, but don't actually help get any closer to determining whether or not it is really the case. I welcome your help. I just want to move towards knowing the real deal as opposed to trolling around in what-could-be waters. [/strike]

ETA: Has nothing to do with "I can't believe" some legal concept is the way it is - I never said that. I said I don't want to assume anything. I don't want to assume it's that way in Texas just because it's that way in Florida. If it is, fine... I'm open to someone showing me that it is. I'm not going to operate as if it is based on the assumption that it's the same as Florida - that would not be a reasonable thing for me to do.

ETA: When I said " please point to them. " this is not a sarcastic challenge implying that they don't exist - I'm genuinely requesting assistance while simultaneously admitting I don't know how to research this query!

ETA:
What if I apologize for being an *******?

Ok...it was late, I was tired. And then your attitude pissed me off this morning when I was only trying to help.

So, now with that out of the way (I got a whole 3 hours of sleep), I present this in support of my comment "Most state are probably similar..."
Texas appears to be a little better at laying it all out. I sort of like this. In Florida, sometimes it becomes more of an editorial issue and the burden of proof could be based simply of the ordering (editorial layout) of the statues.

Texas Penal Code

Sec. 2.02. EXCEPTION. (a) An exception to an offense in this code is so labeled by the phrase: "It is an exception to the application of . . . ."
(b) The prosecuting attorney must negate the existence of an exception in the accusation charging commission of the offense and prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant or defendant's conduct does not fall within the exception.
(c) This section does not affect exceptions applicable to offenses enacted prior to the effective date of this code.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, Sec. 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974. Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, Sec. 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994.

Sec. 2.03. DEFENSE. (a) A defense to prosecution for an offense in this code is so labeled by the phrase: "It is a defense to prosecution . . . ."
(b) The prosecuting attorney is not required to negate the existence of a defense in the accusation charging commission of the offense.
(c) The issue of the existence of a defense is not submitted to the jury unless evidence is admitted supporting the defense.
(d) If the issue of the existence of a defense is submitted to the jury, the court shall charge that a reasonable doubt on the issue requires that the defendant be acquitted.
(e) A ground of defense in a penal law that is not plainly labeled in accordance with this chapter has the procedural and evidentiary consequences of a defense.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, Sec. 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974. Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, Sec. 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994.

Sec. 2.04. AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE. (a) An affirmative defense in this code is so labeled by the phrase: "It is an affirmative defense to prosecution . . . ."
(b) The prosecuting attorney is not required to negate the existence of an affirmative defense in the accusation charging commission of the offense.
(c) The issue of the existence of an affirmative defense is not submitted to the jury unless evidence is admitted supporting the defense.
(d) If the issue of the existence of an affirmative defense is submitted to the jury, the court shall charge that the defendant must prove the affirmative defense by a preponderance of evidence.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, Sec. 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974. Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, Sec. 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994.

2.02 is like our new concealed carry law. The state must have PC that an individual is not licensed to dertain and then prove it beyond a resonable dount in court..... i.e. an element of the crime.

2.03 & 2.03 are more similar to the way ours used to be. The individual has the burden of proof that they fit into one of the 'exceptions'.

I don't want to go back and review which exact code we were referring to, so if you can help me with those, we can see which of these apply in those specif instances.

I just found this, the first two pages explains quite well why the state/locality would want to use defenses vs exceptions. Bad for citizens/good for government.
http://texascityattorneys.org/2013speakerpapers/RileyFletcher/MunicipalOrdinances_DavidJohnson.pdf

qednick · Feb 5, 2016

Trying to get back on topic...

Been to quite a few of the same places including WalMart (I-10 @ DeZavala) this morning to do the bi-weekly money center and Woodforest Bank run. I tried getting over yesterday but got too busy so had to go today (Friday) and the money center was packed. Stood in line for ages. Not sure what reactions anyone behind me had--maybe just thought I was LE. Didn't get asked for LTC or anything. Another boring non-event

nonameisgood · Feb 5, 2016

qednick said:
Trying to get back on topic...

Been to quite a few of the same places including WalMart (I-10 @ DeZavala) this morning to do the bi-weekly money center and Woodforest Bank run. I tried getting over yesterday but got too busy so had to go today (Friday) and the money center was packed. Stood in line for ages. Not sure what reactions anyone behind me had--maybe just thought I was LE. Didn't get asked for LTC or anything. Another boring non-event

They somehow messed up our payroll, so the biweekly bank trip was interrupted because there was no money today. 600 employees unpaid on pay day. Pretty sure someone's bonus is in jeopardy.

Been covering it up since its been long work days and cool temps. But I am not complaining about temps in the 40s and 50s.
Will seek out a drop leg this weekend for use on the motorcycle.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

fozzy71 · Feb 6, 2016

nonameisgood said:
They somehow messed up our payroll, so the biweekly bank trip was interrupted because there was no money today. 600 employees unpaid on pay day. Pretty sure someone's bonus is in jeopardy.

Been covering it up since its been long work days and cool temps. But I am not complaining about temps in the 40s and 50s.
Will seek out a drop leg this weekend for use on the motorcycle.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Make sure it has good active retention like a safariland level 2 or 3. I personally wouldn't want to wear a drop leg on a motorcycle for numerous reasons: leg strap buckles could scratch the paint, drawing would likely be very difficult when in a seated position, etc.

qednick · Feb 6, 2016

nonameisgood said:
They somehow messed up our payroll, so the biweekly bank trip was interrupted because there was no money today. 600 employees unpaid on pay day. Pretty sure someone's bonus is in jeopardy.

Been covering it up since its been long work days and cool temps. But I am not complaining about temps in the 40s and 50s.
Will seek out a drop leg this weekend for use on the motorcycle.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dang! Hopefully they get that payroll thing sorted out for you ASAP!

MAC702 · Feb 6, 2016

nonameisgood said:
...Will seek out a drop leg this weekend for use on the motorcycle. ...

I agree with fozzy. I prefer the gun on my belt for all activities. I ride. Dropped leg holsters are for guys wearing so much armor they can't hardly move.

MSG Laigaie · Feb 6, 2016

nonameisgood said:
Will seek out a drop leg .............. for use on the motorcycle.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

fozzy71 said:
drawing would likely be very difficult when in a seated position, etc.

I ride quite a bit because we have good weather. I carry all the time, so the holster is important. I used a fobus for a long time and it worked well, good access. I now use a "cowboy rig" and it works amazingly well. I guess nothing is really new. A second belt that carries the gun a bit lower, great access and infinite adjust-ability. It does appear a tad more aggressive than a traditional belt holster.

nonameisgood · Feb 6, 2016

Adventure/dual sport bike so scratches and convenience are not a problem. And it's not really to draw while riding but to avoid having it buried two layers deep where I can't get it when ATGATT (which is always). Would be wearing over armored pants.
Safariland with retention is the best option I've found so far.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

fozzy71 · Feb 6, 2016

fozzy71 said:
......drawing from a thigh rig would likely be very difficult when in a seated position, etc.

FMP

MSG Laigaie said:
I ride quite a bit because we have good weather. I carry all the time, so the holster is important. I used a fobus for a long time and it worked well, good access. I now use a "cowboy rig" and it works amazingly well. I guess nothing is really new. A second belt that carries the gun a bit lower, great access and infinite adjust-ability. It does appear a tad more aggressive than a traditional belt holster.

....

I was quoting someone wanting a thigh rig for riding a motorcycle. While he is unlikely to need to draw while moving since he could just elude those shooting, etc, he may have need to draw when stopped/seated and a thigh rig would make the gun/holster horizontal most of the time. I carry OWB between 2 and 3 o clock and have no issues drawing when seated/belted in my car.

qednick · Feb 7, 2016

Yesterday went to some of the usual places including Longhorn Cafe and WalMart in Boerne (both were packed). Also managed to finally make it to the Cowboy Store in Bandera. I figured they'd be OC friendly since they have a huge "Come and Take It" canon mural on the wall outside. We spent a while in there (it was full of tourists) but the cool thing was the owner came up to me and shook my hand. We had a good ol' chin wag. Bandera is definitely a great town for OC!!

Grapeshot · Feb 7, 2016

qednick said:
Yesterday went to some of the usual places including Longhorn Cafe and WalMart in Boerne (both were packed). Also managed to finally make it to the Cowboy Store in Bandera. I figured they'd be OC friendly since they have a huge "Come and Take It" canon mural on the wall outside. We spent a while in there (it was full of tourists) but the cool thing was the owner came up to me and shook my hand. We had a good ol' chin wag. Bandera is definitely a great town for OC!!

Now I can relate to that!

nonameisgood · Feb 7, 2016

Academy today. They have a sign on the door stating that handguns carried openly or concealed by licensed persons are welcome.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

qednick · Feb 8, 2016

Grapeshot said:
Now I can relate to that!

Yup! I think I'm gonna go back and show my appreciation by buying some boots!

nonameisgood said:
Academy today. They have a sign on the door stating that handguns carried openly or concealed by licensed persons are welcome.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just gotta love going places where we're welcome!

jordanmills · Feb 8, 2016

nonameisgood said:
Academy today. They have a sign on the door stating that handguns carried openly or concealed by licensed persons are welcome.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Except for rifles. They were doing so well until I got to that part.

qednick · Feb 8, 2016

jordanmills said:
Except for rifles. They were doing so well until I got to that part.

Surely you can take a rifle in there? You don't need a license...and what if you happen to be returning one??

Grapeshot · Feb 8, 2016

jordanmills said:
Except for rifles. They were doing so well until I got to that part.

qednick said:
Surely you can take a rifle in there? You don't need a license...and what if you happen to be returning one??

Haven't seen the sign, but I suspect what they don't want is loaded long guns brought into the shop.

WalkingWolf · Feb 8, 2016

jordanmills said:
Except for rifles. They were doing so well until I got to that part.

What about the people carrying antique firearms(cap and ball), they don't need a license. I think I would find somewhere else to spend my money. A company that only allows P4P carry is not a second amendment supporter.

CrossFire · Feb 8, 2016

WalkingWolf said:
What about the people carrying antique firearms(cap and ball), they don't need a license. I think I would find somewhere else to spend my money. A company that only allows P4P carry is not a second amendment supporter.

I don't believe it is a 2A thing. I think it is more inline with their delusion that license people have been vetted and are safer than others.

Stryker · Feb 8, 2016

WalkingWolf said:
What about the people carrying antique firearms(cap and ball), they don't need a license. I think I would find somewhere else to spend my money. A company that only allows P4P carry is not a second amendment supporter.

I highly doubt that Academy understands the nuances of P4P as you and we do. This sign (proof pending) is likely one of the most pro-carry that we have seen since Jan 1.

Sure, they could have added details to carve out black powder and antiques and replicas and shotguns and rifles... but 99.9% of Texas gun carriers with business in Academy are covered as posted.

I'm just thrilled to know they are not just silent about open carry, but openly support it within our current regulatory environment. Now, if we get to unlicensed constitutional carry, this conversation changes a bit.

ETA: Forgot to keep it on topic. Super Bowl snack run to Wallyworld in Roanoke. Meh... about as exciting as the half time rainbow show.

stealthyeliminator · Feb 8, 2016

Stryker said:
I highly doubt that Academy understands the nuances of P4P as you and we do. This sign (proof pending) is likely one of the most pro-carry that we have seen since Jan 1.

Sure, they could have added details to carve out black powder and antiques and replicas and shotguns and rifles... but 99.9% of Texas gun carriers with business in Academy are covered as posted.

I'm just thrilled to know they are not just silent about open carry, but openly support it within our current regulatory environment. Now, if we get to unlicensed constitutional carry, this conversation changes a bit.

ETA: Forgot to keep it on topic. Super Bowl snack run to Wallyworld in Roanoke. Meh... about as exciting as the half time rainbow show.

I'm pretty sure these sort of signs at Academy Sports locations began going up long before licensed handgun OC even passed, if not just before it took effect. I do not believe that their intent is to "support" open carry in any way. IMO, it would indeed be better if they were silent about open carry. ETA: I think, and I could be wrong, but I think it is a case of them wanting to ride the line and have it both ways.

CrossFire said:
I don't believe it is a 2A thing. I think it is more inline with their delusion that license people have been vetted and are safer than others.

That makes it a 2a thing. ETA: Anything to do with licensing or vetting or any form of prior restraint is a 2a issue IMO.

WalkingWolf said:
What about the people carrying antique firearms(cap and ball), they don't need a license. I think I would find somewhere else to spend my money. A company that only allows P4P carry is not a second amendment supporter.

Agreed.

Edit: If someone can get the exact wording, that would be good. But my understanding as of now is that their signs, unless they differ by location, do not specifically mention licensing. Rather, they say that lawful concealed or open carry is allowed, but rifles must be checked (such as if you need to get them serviced). Please correct if this is inaccurate.

Post your TX Open Carry experiences here!

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Campaign Veteran

Campaign Veteran

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Legendary Warrior

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Legendary Warrior

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member