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Thread: Modesto Personal Protection Institute instructor shoots pastor student

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    Modesto Personal Protection Institute instructor shoots pastor student

    Mr. Rushing, an eighth degree black belt, had already taken his rubber training gun out of his holster and replaced it with his real handgun when one of his students asked him to show the proper way to neutralize an attacker armed with a knife, the Modesto Bee reported on Monday this week.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ructor-during/

    https://news.google.com/news/rtc?ncl...QBB5_kxUBe9w1M

    The rubber-gun squad should stick to rubber guns.
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    Adhering to safety prodigals goes a long ways in preventing these incidents.

    A moment carelessness can have tragic results.

    Fairly typical of these type of situations a break in the training every bodies mind is on something else.

    Then some one starts up again without going thru the safety procedures.
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    There is benefit in studying such cases, just as there is to examining self-defense cases, to see what can be learned from others. Far better than having to learn everything ourselves from personal experience.

    But I think we move from the useful and legitimate into the realm of petty and destructive to our own goals when we belittle or attack rather than simply learning. I think sometimes, some among us are so quick to distance themselves from imperfection that they move into throwing our own under the proverbial bus.

    It seems every gun-related injury or accident is fodder for the media. Imagine if every injury needing medical attention at a martial arts studio, a dance studio, or even a gymnastics class were to get equal billing. Would we demand that every drivers' training school with a crash get shut down?

    For another example, in 2014, out of the millions of passenger flights taken in a nation with tens of millions of permits to carry and more than one firearm for every person in the nation, a grand total of 37 guns were seized by the TSA at airport security checkpoints. This makes news as a "record breaking year" and too many gun owners are quick to ridicule these 37 persons as idiots or worse. (If we believe stats on how poorly TSA performs, we might well figure another ~400 unauthorized firearms made it onto planes undetected and never caused any problems whatsoever.) But in the media, among gun folks, and generally in the courts, nary a mention of the some 13 MILLION other prohibited items seized. Maybe, rather than eating our own, we ought to be asking why otherwise perfectly law abiding gun carriers are treated so much more harshly for a momentary lapse in memory than are those persons whose lapse in memory involved items much more like those actually used on 9/11 (various knives) or in some terror attempts since (bottles of liquids that might contain chemical weapons of some sort).

    If the trainer is a hack, or has a history of safety problems, probably a fine time to pile on.

    But if this is just the media making hay over an unfortunate but rare accident among a legitimate and generally safe self-defense instructor, I don't see how ridicule really helps him or us at all.

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    Another 'passively constructed' negligent discharge:
    “During the scenario, the instructor drew the firearm and it accidentally discharged,” Modesto Police Department spokeswoman Heather Graves told the newspaper.

    In other words, the instructor drew the firearm and pulled the trigger. Easily avoidable with trigger discipline.

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    HuffPo picks it up

    Tom Smith, a family pastor at The House Modesto who also helps with church security, volunteered to act as the attacker. During the roleplaying scenario, Rushing pulled out his weapon and shot Smith in the waist, above the hip, the paper said.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b0688701db93d3
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    There are certain things that need to be done when conducting Force on Force and scenario based training to insure safety of the students and instructors.

    Having been involved in a lot of force on force and scenario base training as a student and instructor.

    There are procedures that need to be followed to.

    Done right this type of training can be very effective and useful skills can be learned.

    Done wrong injuries can result.

    There is a fine line between effective training and going to far if one is too cautious the training doesn't accomplish what it was design to teach.

    On the other side if pushed to hard unnecessary injuries can result.

    One might ask what are unnecessary injuries those that result in work comp claims or ER visits.

    Bruises, sore muscles, minor floor or rug burns and the likes could be acceptable depending on the training involved.
    Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 12-16-2015 at 08:08 AM.
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    Glad to see the Huffpo so concerned about the Pastor's well- being. Filed under their 'Crime' section - not 'Religion' or 'See - Guns are Bad'.


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    Apparently the instructor is well skilled in the martial arts...not so much when handling a firearm. The instructor should be disbarred from any further opportunities to provide state sanctioned firearms training.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Apparently the instructor is well skilled in the martial arts...not so much when handling a firearm. The instructor should be disbarred from any further opportunities to provide state sanctioned firearms training.
    Bet'cha a nickle he's fully tatted, with a mouth merkin, tailored t-shirt and Putin's gunslinger-gait. Another Only One. He has showed the good sense to not come here and display his lack of literacy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Apparently the instructor is well skilled in the martial arts...not so much when handling a firearm. .
    Well he did hit is target.

    I would most likely say that he most likely lacked the proper training/skills to instruct force on force training involving certain weapons.

    Being an firearms instructor doesn't automatically quality one to instruct force on force training.

    Being qualified to instruct force on force training no weapons involved doesn't make you qualified to teach it with weapons.

    A lot of instructors are cross trained and receive, specific force on force training.

    In Wis. it is called unified tactical instructor training requiring an mandatory 8 hrs. of in-service training each year. Above your other training requirements.

    The goal is to get every body training on the same page so one or the other isn't instructing something that the others are contradicting.
    Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 12-16-2015 at 11:28 AM.
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    Professional training for elite Only Ones, a la Lee Paige DEA agent (ret.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Professional training for elite Only Ones, a la Lee Paige DEA agent (ret.)


    As much as you talk about training and instructing you should start your own instructing/training business being all knowledgeable about it.

    A person with as vast of knowledge base as yours should be able to draw students from all over and have them pay a healthy sum.

    So they can glean just a small part of your vast wisdom when it comes to all things doing with firearms.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    As much as you talk about training and instructing you should start your own instructing/training business being all knowledgeable about it. A person with as vast of knowledge base as yours should be able to draw students from all over and have them pay a healthy sum. So they can glean just a small part of your vast wisdom when it comes to all things doing with firearms.
    Been there, done that in another state, got the t-shirt and burned it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Professional training for elite Only Ones, a la Lee Paige DEA agent (ret.)
    Is this an attack on training in general? Or just eating our own for an unfortunate but rare error?
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Been there, done that in another state, got the t-shirt and burned it.
    You have me convinced of your abilities.
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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    Is this an attack on training in general? Or just eating our own for an unfortunate but rare error?
    Unfortunate? Yes?

    Very rare to be sure.

    Given the facts presented to us, I will not classify this idiot instructor's act as a mere error though.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    Is this an attack on training in general? Or just eating our own for an unfortunate but rare error?
    I believe that it is unfortunate to characterize an elite as our own, and criticism as eating, and errors by the elite are not rare, occurring at the same rate as in the general population.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Unfortunate? Yes?

    Very rare to be sure.

    Given the facts presented to us, I will not classify this idiot instructor's act as a mere error though.
    It is hard to believe that he shot his student on purpose.
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    There is no dichotomy between purpose and error, as there may be between error and negligence.

    There are no accidents with a key in the ignition, control rods latched or a round chambered, there is only negligence and irresponsibility.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    No charges had been filed against Mr. Rushing, she said, but the Modesto Police’s investigations unit could ultimately decide to refer the matter to the District Attorney’s Office for prosecution.

    I think that this particular set of circumstances should be handled as a civil matter myself.

    Not a very good safety class instructor...but anyone can announce he's a safety instructor and hold such classes. Not that I see regulation desirable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    It is hard to believe that he shot his student on purpose.
    Changes not one thing in my view... "The instructor should be disbarred from any further opportunities to provide state sanctioned firearms training."

    Criminal charges for the negligence, given the specific situation where the discharge occurred. Civil action from the dude who got shot. This instructor needs to be put out of business in more ways than one.

    He is a ninja, apparently, and needs not a gun...no?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Changes not one thing in my view... "The instructor should be disbarred from any further opportunities to provide state sanctioned firearms training."

    Criminal charges for the negligence, given the specific situation where the discharge occurred. Civil action from the dude who got shot. This instructor needs to be put out of business in more ways than one.
    And who is the governing body that is going to disbar him and can you give a citation that this was a state stationed event.

    Or a citation to what law he should be charged with.

    A Civil is suit highly likely.

    As being put out off business it would seem a market force matter.

    Bad instructors normally go away when they lose their clients.

    Shooting them is a quick way of losing them but not recommended.

    Or are you suggesting that the government should highly regulate self defense instructors.

    Or should you be placed in a position of determining who is or is not a good instructor.

    It is very easy to Monday quarter back any situation with out offering any thing meaning full into the discussion.
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    California Penal Code § 246.3. (a) Except as otherwise authorized by law, any person who willfully discharges a firearm in a grossly negligent manner which could result in injury or death to a person is guilty of a public offense and shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, or by imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170.

    There is nothing meaningful in monotonous apologia.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 12-18-2015 at 10:38 AM.
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    What...???

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    California Penal Code § 246.3. (a) Except as otherwise authorized by law, any person who willfully discharges a firearm in a grossly negligent manner which could result in injury or death to a person is guilty of a public offense and shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, or by imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170.

    There is nothing meaningful in monotonous apologia.
    Is there a law in California that allows a person to willfully discharges a firearm in a grossly negligent manner ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lthrnck View Post
    Is there a law in California that allows a person to willfully discharges a firearm in a grossly negligent manner ?
    Probably not, as the law generally prohibits rather than permits.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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