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Thread: HB 1747: Open Carry ban

  1. #1
    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
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    HB 1747: under 18 Open Carry ban

    FYI!
    http://app.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summa...1747&year=2015

    Start calling, writing and emailing every rep and every senator. They are going for an OC ban in WA.

    (ii) Exhibits the firearm in a public place or in an angry,
    threatening, or careless manner; or
    Last edited by Alpine; 12-22-2015 at 12:17 AM.

  2. #2
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    Read the bill. Context is important:

    (1) A person who stores or leaves a firearm in a location where17 the person knows, or reasonably should know, that a child is likely18 19 to gain access:
    H-1128.1
    HOUSE BILL 1747
    State of Washington 64th Legislature 2015 Regular Session
    By Representatives Kagi, Jinkins, Carlyle, Senn, Robinson, Walkinshaw, Appleton, Cody, Fitzgibbon, Tharinger, S. Hunt, Goodman, Farrell, and Santos
    Read first time 01/28/15. Referred to Committee on Judiciary.
    p. 1 HB 1747
    (a) Is guilty of child endangerment due to unsafe storage of a1 firearm in the first degree if a child obtains access and possession2 of the firearm and the child causes personal injury or death with the3 4 firearm; or (b) Is guilty of child endangerment due to unsafe storage of a5 firearm in the second degree if a child obtains access and possession6 7 of the firearm and the child: (i) 8 Causes the firearm to discharge; (ii) Exhibits the firearm in a public place or in an angry,9 10 threatening, or careless manner; or (iii) Uses the firearm in the commission of a crime
    This is not prohibiting open carry. It's punishing someone who gives a child access to a firearm and that CHILD open carries the gun.

    I still think the bill should be opposed.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
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    This would ban under-18 open carry in recreational activities?

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    (3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply if:
    (a) The firearm is secured in a locked box, gun safe, other secure locked storage space, or secured with a lock or any device that prevents the firearm from discharging;
    (b) The child's access to the firearm is with the lawful permission of the child's parent or guardian and supervised by an adult;

    seems the crux of your legislative fervor and concern should be quantifying the definition of child as currently defined by 13.34.030(2)(a) to discern an age of the word 'child' something other than < 18 to means the young of the human species, (generally under the age of puberty) http://thelawdictionary.org/child/

    and with including a caveat of holding the caregivers accountable this seems like decent legislation.

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 12-22-2015 at 08:52 AM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

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    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    As I don't have kids my knowledge on underage carry in WA is shaky at best. However, I'm pretty sure at least a couple of those subsections are already law.
    Plus can anybody name a gun shop that doesn't offer free trigger locks of their own volition? I can even name businesses that don't sell firearms that offer this.
    This is just more of the same garbage. Let's create even more laws without enforcing current ones.
    "Loyalty above all else except honor. " -John Mahoney

    "A Government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have." -Gerald R. Ford

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    ...

    and with including a caveat of holding the caregivers accountable this seems like decent legislation.

    ipse
    Disagree.

    The state should not be permitted to expand their definition of what their compelling interest is to prevent/enable X.

    It seems to me that there currently exists ample remedies if a your <18 y/o crumb cruncher gets access to your gat and then screws up w/o adult supervision. Also, it seems that the <18 y/o crumb cruncher will be, or you maybe, held to account if he gets a hold of your gat in a reasonable act of SD...for a adult that is.

    Oppose this legislation goode citizens of WA!
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  7. #7
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by decklin View Post
    As I don't have kids my knowledge on underage carry in WA is shaky at best. However, I'm pretty sure at least a couple of those subsections are already law.
    Plus can anybody name a gun shop that doesn't offer free trigger locks of their own volition? I can even name businesses that don't sell firearms that offer this.
    This is just more of the same garbage. Let's create even more laws without enforcing current ones.
    federal mandate...

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  8. #8
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    federal mandate...

    ipse
    My XD .40 did not come with a trigger lock, nor did the retail outlet offer one...not even remind me. But, Springfield Armory did include in the box a miniature bike lock looking thing...does that count?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  9. #9
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    My XD .40 did not come with a trigger lock, nor did the retail outlet offer one...not even remind me. But, Springfield Armory did include in the box a miniature bike lock looking thing...does that count?
    yes...cheep alternative decided by gun manufacturers to meet the mandate.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  10. #10
    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
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    Is it already illegal for 17 or 16 year olds to hunt alone or without an adult supervisor? I can recall lots of kids at my school who went hunting after class during bird seasons on their way home.

    Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

  11. #11
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Disagree.

    The state should not be permitted to expand their definition of what their compelling interest is to prevent/enable X.

    It seems to me that there currently exists ample remedies if a your <18 y/o crumb cruncher gets access to your gat and then screws up w/o adult supervision. Also, it seems that the <18 y/o crumb cruncher will be, or you maybe, held to account if he gets a hold of your gat in a reasonable act of SD...for a adult that is.

    Oppose this legislation goode citizens of WA!
    did you read where the bill's provisions being shock and awe touted by the OP are after the 'child' has broken into get your firearm or the caregiver left it unattended?

    NC has similar legislation on the books and to the best of my knowledge, nobody has been prosecuted, charged yes, prosecuted...nope.

    like i stated define what a child is and life would be good.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  12. #12
    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    federal mandate...

    ipse
    What do you mean? That they come with a lock? Not all my guns did.
    I'm talking about a box of locks sitting on the counter for anybody to take.
    "Loyalty above all else except honor. " -John Mahoney

    "A Government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have." -Gerald R. Ford

  13. #13
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    https://www.atf.gov/file/84821/download

    ATF: 21 April 2006 quote: This new section makes it generally unlawful for “any licensed importer, manufacturer, or dealer to sell, deliver, or transfer any handgun to any person, other than another licensee, unless the transferee (buyer) is provided with a secure gun storage or safety device for that handgun.”

    Accordingly, licensees must make the necessary arrangements to provide secure gun storage or safety devices with the transfer of andguns from the April 24th effective date.

    FEDERAL FIREARMS REGULATIONS REFERENCE GUIDE 2005 https://www.atf.gov/file/58686/download

    pg 7: (34) The term "secure gun storage
    or safety device" means—
    (A) a device that, when installed on a firearm, is designed to prevent the firearm from being operated without first deactivating the device;


    pg 15: (z) SECURE GUN STORAGE OR SAFTEY (sic) DEVICE—
    (1) IN GENERAL- Except as Provided under paragraph (2), it shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer to sell, deliver, or transfer any handgun to any person other than any person licensed under this chapter, unless the transferee is provided with a secure gun storage or safety device (as defined in section 921(a)(34)) for than handgun.


    nine more references in the document...

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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