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Thread: Virginia to stop honoring some out-of-state concealed handgun permits

  1. #176
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    I can't say that I expect any results from this, other than just more good exposure (sunlight kills mold and all that stuff), but kudos to Scott Lingamfelter for pushing the issue.

    As always, here's the key talking point from the article:

    A Republican state legislator is urging Democratic Gov. Terry McAuliffe to delay the revocation of reciprocal agreements Virginia has with 25 states on whether to honor their concealed handgun carry permits.

    Del. L. Scott Lingamfelter of Woodbridge made the request in a letter this week to McAuliffe.

    “Given the fact that the State Police has told me that they have no records of any out-of-state individual with a concealed carry permit committing crimes in Virginia, I think a few months’ delay hardly represents a threat to our citizens,” Lingamfelter said.

    TFred

    Lingamfelter asks Governor to delay revoking gun permits

  2. #177
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    They can't even put together an accurate headline - but no surprise there!

  3. #178
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    A reversal, with "concessions" described as forthcoming:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...cc8_story.html

    (And mods, please tell me how to format links appropriately to tie to the headline.)

  4. #179
    Activist Member Wolf_shadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by homestar View Post
    A reversal, with "concessions" described as forthcoming:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...cc8_story.html

    (And mods, please tell me how to format links appropriately to tie to the headline.)
    interesting but concessions need to be watched! And when will this go into effect?

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  5. #180
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by homestar View Post
    A reversal, with "concessions" described as forthcoming:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...cc8_story.html

    (And mods, please tell me how to format links appropriately to tie to the headline.)
    "The policy changes will come in the form of bipartisan legislation before the General Assembly."

    The only one I am aware of is Bryce Reeves' bill, which was just combined with several others. You can read the amended provisions yourself here:

    SB 610 Concealed handguns; recognition of out-of-state permits. (Hilited format)

    (There is another, which sets up a committee to study the issue, which was sent to the Finance Committee.)

    TFred

  6. #181
    Activist Member Wolf_shadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    "The policy changes will come in the form of bipartisan legislation before the General Assembly."

    The only one I am aware of is Bryce Reeves' bill, which was just combined with several others. You can read the amended provisions yourself here:

    SB 610 Concealed handguns; recognition of out-of-state permits. (Hilited format)

    (There is another, which sets up a committee to study the issue, which was sent to the Finance Committee.)

    TFred
    Appears to recognize all states.

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    Yes I carry a Bible and a Gun, your point.
    Vindiciae Contra Tyrannos (meaning: "A defence of liberty against tyrants")
    Benjamin Franklin said, "A government that does not trust it's citizens with guns is a government that should not be trusted."



  7. #182
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by homestar View Post
    A reversal, with "concessions" described as forthcoming:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...cc8_story.html

    (And mods, please tell me how to format links appropriately to tie to the headline.)
    Va. will once again recognize concealed carry permits from other states

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...cc8_story.html



    Copy headline, paste. Copy URL, click on link icon, paste.
    Better to not open your mouth and be thought the fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

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  8. #183
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf_shadow View Post
    Appears to recognize all states.
    We must remember to thank McAwful, Herr Herring and of course Lori, w/o whom this would not have come to fruition. Kind of brings a tear to my eye.
    Better to not open your mouth and be thought the fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  9. #184
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf_shadow View Post
    Appears to recognize all states.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    We must remember to thank McAwful, Herr Herring and of course Lori, w/o whom this would not have come to fruition. Kind of brings a tear to my eye.
    This would be rather ironic, wouldn't it!

    TFred

  10. #185
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    Read the fine print. Look at the last paragraph of the WAPO article linked above. Another provision of this agreement would apparently end private sales at gun shows unless a background check is conducted by the VA State Police. Governor has agreed to provide state police at every gun show for this purpose. There's also a provision to deny reciprocity to any individual who has a permit from another state VA recognizes, but had previously been denied a VA permit. Not sure how they're going enforce that.

    Actually rather clever on the part of the governor. He gets gun control enacted that would never otherwise make it through the GA (closing the gun show "loophole") while gun owners regain lost reciprocity they may well get back anyway if unilateral recognition of all state permits passes and withstands the governor's veto. Furthermore, such an agreement might well take the wind out of the sails of much of the pro gun legislation currently under consideration, such as permitless carry.
    Last edited by markand; 01-28-2016 at 04:17 PM.

  11. #186
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markand View Post
    Read the fine print. Look at the last paragraph of the WAPO article linked above. Another provision of this agreement would apparently end private sales at gun shows unless a background check is conducted by the VA State Police. Governor has agreed to provide state police at every gun show for this purpose. There's also a provision to deny reciprocity to any individual who has been denied a VA permit. Not sure how they're going enforce that.

    Actually rather clever on the part of the governor. He gets gun control enacted that would never otherwise make it through the GA (closing the gun show "loophole") while gun owners regain lost reciprocity they may well get back anyway if unilateral recognition of all state permits passes and withstands the governor's veto. Furthermore, such an agreement might well take the wind out of the sails of much of the pro gun legislation currently under consideration, such as permitless carry.
    Nope - it is voluntary, but a very slippery slope.
    Better to not open your mouth and be thought the fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  12. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Nope - it is voluntary, but a very slippery slope.
    Yes, it says "voluntary", but I can't imagine the governor agreeing to any such thing. I'm still concerned that this agreement will stall good legislation like unilateral recognition. If VA unilaterally recognizes all permits, we'll not only get back the states lost, but likely gain 3 more (CO, GA and NH) that we never had.

    Then there's the provision that forces anybody under a permanent protective order to liquidate or surrender all firearms within 24 hours. Who knows what other gun control is going to get hung on this tree.

    I can't really see this as a win for gun owners.

  13. #188
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markand View Post
    I can't really see this as a win for gun owners.
    Because it's not.

  14. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by markand View Post
    Read the fine print. Look at the last paragraph of the WAPO article linked above. Another provision of this agreement would apparently end private sales at gun shows unless a background check is conducted by the VA State Police. Governor has agreed to provide state police at every gun show for this purpose. There's also a provision to deny reciprocity to any individual who has been denied a VA permit. Not sure how they're going enforce that.
    ^1+
    Our elected officials have allowed the camels nose under the tent.
    They should have waited McDouche out of office. Instead both sides can now claim victory, at freedom expense.

    The mere fact McDouche and Red are now willing to accept the same chp holders they claimed weren't qualified to carry under VA law shows the issues was truly a non starter.


    I'll bet McAwful and Red will be looking for the next chink in the gun laws in VA for another round of concessions..
    I suspect the voluntary gun show private sales background check will be changed to mandatory.


    Chippers can Rejoice in their hollow victory.
    Last edited by Marco; 01-28-2016 at 04:44 PM.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
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  15. #190
    Regular Member glockfan's Avatar
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    One thing I don't get is, if you sell a handgun privately and the State Police do a background check does the chain of ownership still lead back to the last FFL and not the private seller?

  16. #191
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    This horrible legislation should be sent to McAwful only after all other pro gun legislation is sent to him. Early veto of Constitutional Carry or Agency Preemption = no compromise bill only the well deserved F0&D.
    Last edited by Thundar; 01-28-2016 at 04:54 PM.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

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  17. #192
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    I hope that the legislative fix for this will continue independent of this solution. If not, this could happen again as soon as the legislature adjourns.

    The "voluntary" background check on private sales doesn't seem to be allowed or prohibited by any law. Couldn't that have been done anytime that anybody "volunteered" to do it? I wonder how long those checks will continue when it becomes obvious that they will almost never be utilized. Those State Police officers will get very bored sitting all day at a gun show with nothing to do. Be sure to take them a book to read while collecting that overtime.


    ^emphasis mine:

    You got to be kidding.
    There are many VA CHP'rs (probably not a problem limited to VA) that believe those without a CHP are felons and insist on folks showing them a CHP to conduct a private sale as a defacto background check.

    Let me sincerely commend everyone on here who requires "good guy papers" including a CCP or a voter registration card, because you are (sort of) running a rudimentary background check.
    This is one of many found on VAGT.
    The owner of the same site at one time urged folks to ask the sellers to request that buyers produce a CHP prior to a firearm sale.
    Last edited by Marco; 01-28-2016 at 05:17 PM. Reason: edit;additional info
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


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  18. #193
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    I hope that the legislative fix for this will continue independent of this solution. If not, this could happen again as soon as the legislature adjourns.

    The "voluntary" background check on private sales doesn't seem to be allowed or prohibited by any law. Couldn't that have been done anytime that anybody "volunteered" to do it? I wonder how long those checks will continue when it becomes obvious that they will almost never be utilized. Those State Police officers will get very bored sitting all day at a gun show with nothing to do. Be sure to take them a book to read while collecting that overtime.
    You seem to misunderstand how this is happening. Legislation, both new bills and changes to previously filed bills is the solution.

    Last two paragraphs of the WaPo article:

    In another concession, state police must be present at all gun shows to administer background checks in private sales of guns on a voluntary basis. McAuliffe’s budget includes $100,000 to fund the activity.

    Sen. John S. Edwards (D-Roanoke) and Del. L. Scott Lingemfelter (R-Prince William) are carrying that bill.
    Delegate Lingamfelter's bill:

    HB 1386 Firearms shows; voluntary background checks by Department of State Police.

    The format never carries over nicely, but the text is here:

    HOUSE BILL NO. 1386
    Offered January 22, 2016
    A BILL to amend the Code of Virginia by adding a section numbered 54.1-4201.2, relating to firearms shows; voluntary background checks; penalties.
    ----------
    Patron-- Lingamfelter
    ----------
    Referred to Committee on Militia, Police and Public Safety
    ----------

    Be it enacted by the General Assembly of Virginia:

    1. That the Code of Virginia is amended by adding a section numbered 54.1-4201.2 as follows:

    § 54.1-4201.2. Firearm transactions by persons other than dealers; voluntary background checks.

    A. The Department of State Police shall be available at every firearms show held in the Commonwealth to make determinations in accordance with the procedures set out in § 18.2-308.2:2 of whether a prospective purchaser or transferee is prohibited under state or federal law from possessing a firearm. The Department of State Police shall establish policies and procedures in accordance with 28 C.F.R. § 25.6 to permit such determinations to be made by the Department of State Police.

    Unless otherwise required by state or federal law, any party involved in the transaction may decide whether or not to have such a determination made.

    The Department of State Police may charge a reasonable fee for the determination.

    B. The promoter, as defined in § 54.1-4201.1, shall give the Department of State Police notice of the time and location of a firearms show at least 30 days prior to the show. The promoter shall provide the Department of State Police with adequate space, at no charge, to conduct such prohibition determinations. The promoter shall ensure that a notice that such determinations are available is prominently displayed at the show.

    C. No person who sells or transfers a firearm at a firearms show after receiving a determination from the Department of State Police that the purchaser or transferee is not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a firearm shall be liable for selling or transferring a firearm to such person.

    D. The provisions of § 18.2-308.2:2, including definitions, procedures, and prohibitions, shall apply, mutatis mutandis, to the provisions of this section.

    2. That the provisions of this act shall become effective only if approval is received from the U.S. Department of Justice for the Department of State Police to implement the policies and procedures set out in this act.

    3. That the provisions of this act may result in a net increase in periods of imprisonment or commitment. Pursuant to § 30-19.1:4, the estimated amount of the necessary appropriation cannot be determined for periods of imprisonment in state adult correctional facilities; therefore, Chapter 665 of the Acts of Assembly of 2015 requires the Virginia Criminal Sentencing Commission to assign a minimum fiscal impact of $50,000. Pursuant to § 30-19.1:4, the estimated amount of the necessary appropriation is $0 for periods of commitment to the custody of the Department of Juvenile Justice.

    ETA: Also, SB610 was amended to add the disqualifying clause about Virginia permits being revoked:

    A. A valid concealed handgun or concealed weapon permit or license issued by another state shall authorize the holder of such permit or license who is at least 21 years of age to carry a concealed handgun in the Commonwealth, provided [...] (iii) the permit or license holder has not previously had a Virginia concealed handgun permit revoked.
    Last edited by TFred; 01-28-2016 at 05:21 PM. Reason: I can't spell Lingamfelter, but neither can the WaPo!

  19. #194
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    I am sorry, but I can't see how your comment relates to mine.
    He's saying that you are incorrect in your assessment that the State Police will be bored, because many CHP holders will not sell privately to anyone who does NOT have a CHP. But with this option, they would use the voluntary background check to eliminate risk of their sale.

    TFred

  20. #195
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    I hope that the legislative fix for this will continue independent of this solution. If not, this could happen again as soon as the legislature adjourns.

    The "voluntary" background check on private sales doesn't seem to be allowed or prohibited by any law. Couldn't that have been done anytime that anybody "volunteered" to do it? I wonder how long those checks will continue when it becomes obvious that they will almost never be utilized. Those State Police officers will get very bored sitting all day at a gun show with nothing to do. Be sure to take them a book to read while collecting that overtime.
    Let me sincerely commend everyone on here who requires "good guy papers" including a CCP or a voter registration card, because you are (sort of) running a rudimentary background check.
    http://www.vaguntrader.com/forums/ub...eck#Post992438


    Just one of many found on VAGT.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

  21. #196
    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    http://www.redflagnews.com/headlines...iprocity-again


    Gov. Terry McAuliffe plans to announce Friday that Virginia will restore handgun reciprocity agreements with nearly all states, in a stunning reversal of a firearms policy that had angered Republicans and gun rights advocates across the nation.

    The about-face is part of a deal that McAuliffe (D) struck with Republican leaders one month after Attorney General Mark R. Herring (D) ended the right of gun owners in 25 states to have their concealed carry permits recognized in Virginia.

    In exchange, Republicans will agree to a major concession: Anyone subject to a permanent protective order for a domestic violence offense will be prohibited from carrying a firearm for the two-year life of the order. The issue had been a nonstarter in the Republican-controlled General Assembly.

    Not that you need a permit to bear arms but in general this is tolerable
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

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  22. #197
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    http://www.redflagnews.com/headlines...iprocity-again

    Not that you need a permit to bear arms but in general this is tolerable
    That is an opinion of matter.
    Better to not open your mouth and be thought the fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  23. #198
    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    you're the big fan of baby steps and legal dances. Be grateful you didnt have one this time. It isnt often the government gives you freedom after they steal it.

    Sent from my HTC Desire 626s using Tapatalk
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  24. #199
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    you're the big fan of baby steps and legal dances. Be grateful you didnt have one this time. It isnt often the government gives you freedom after they steal it.
    Big fan is an overreach. Small steps are not unreasonable when we can't get all that we want and are in a position of having some control.

    This camel has a pointy and very cold nose.
    Better to not open your mouth and be thought the fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  25. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    This camel has a pointy and very cold nose.
    Amen. The problem with denying RKBA based on protective orders is that it is far too easy to get protective orders. At the very least, ex parte protective orders--handed out like candy in this part of the world, I hope your courts are more reasonable--should never impact RKBA.

    Charles

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