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Thread: open carry

  1. #1
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    open carry

    Does this woman know what she is talking about? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0u0wNXi_78
    At the 145 min mark she says open carry is not allowed in state parks or Philly. I think she is wrong.
    Last edited by Mr Birdman; 12-25-2015 at 03:14 AM. Reason: spelling

  2. #2
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    Concerning state parks (and that means state parks only, it does not include state forests or other state-owned land), the lady is technically correct. As it stands right now, until the DCNR regulation prohibiting firearms is brought into comportment with state law, open carry of firearms (i.e., handguns) is prohibited in state parks.

    Any carry is prohibited in state parks per DCNR regulation:

    17 Pa. Code § 11.215. Weapons and hunting.
    The following activities are prohibited without written permission of the Department:
    (4) Possessing an uncased device, or uncasing a device, including a firearm, archery equipment or slingshot, that is capable of discharging or propelling a projectile, except as provided in paragraph (2) or (7), or except in the owner’s building on a leased campsite, in the owner’s residence, or in the owner’s vehicle or trailer.

    This total ban, however, was overcome by a tweak to state law permitting concealed carry:

    18 Pa. C.S. § 6109. Licenses.
    (m.2) Inconsistent provisions.--Notwithstanding the provisions of section 7506 (relating to violation of rules regarding conduct on Commonwealth property), 75 Pa.C.S. § 7727 (relating to additional limitations on operation) or the act of June 28, 1995 (P.L.89, No.18), known as the Conservation and Natural Resources Act, and regulations promulgated under that act, a firearm may be carried as provided in subsection (a) by:
    (1) a law enforcement officer whose current identification as a law enforcement officer shall be construed as a valid license to carry a firearm; or
    (2) any licensee.

    The DCNR regulation itself is in violation of state law, but hasn't been legally challenged or amended:

    18 Pa. C.S. § 6109. Licenses.
    (m.3) Construction.--Nothing in this section shall be construed to:
    (2) Authorize any Commonwealth agency to regulate the possession of firearms in any manner inconsistent with the provisions of this title.

    Concerning Philadelphia, the lady is wrong. Any carry, whether open or concealed, is permitted in Philadelphia as long as one possesses an LTCF or is exempt:

    18 Pa. C.S. § 6108. Carrying firearms on public streets or public property in Philadelphia.
    No person shall carry a firearm, rifle or shotgun at any time upon the public streets or upon any public property in a city of the first class unless:
    (1) such person is licensed to carry a firearm; or
    (2) such person is exempt from licensing under section 6106(b) of this title (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license).

    The reason Philadelphia is "special" dates back to when the Uniform Firearms Act was first being implemented. In order to get the Philadelphia representatives to agree to standardizing everything statewide and eliminating local laws, a special exemption was made for Philadelphia. Could this exemption for Philadelphia be challenged in the courts under the equal protection concept? Probably, but someone with money and standing would have to do so.
    Last edited by Statkowski; 12-25-2015 at 09:57 AM.

  3. #3
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    Wowwie!!!

    Really?? Is this true and citable??

    The reason Philadelphia is "special" dates back to when the Uniform Firearms Act was first being implemented. In order to get the Philadelphia representatives to agree to standardizing everything statewide and eliminating local laws, a special exemption was made for Philadelphia. Could this exemption for Philadelphia be challenged in the courts under the equal protection concept? Probably, but someone with money and standing would have to do so.

    The lie in that plan makes me throw up in my mouth ...
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  4. #4
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    Discussed in numerous threads on the PAFOA forum.

    http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=187186

    http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=190530

    http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=150737

    Legal based on Heller and Murdock? No.

  5. #5
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    barrel lenth

    Quote Originally Posted by Statkowski View Post
    Concerning state parks (and that means state parks only, it does not include state forests or other state-owned land), the lady is technically correct. As it stands right now, until the DCNR regulation prohibiting firearms is brought into comportment with state law, open carry of firearms (i.e., handguns) is prohibited in state parks.

    Any carry is prohibited in state parks per DCNR regulation:

    17 Pa. Code § 11.215. Weapons and hunting.
    The following activities are prohibited without written permission of the Department:
    (4) Possessing an uncased device, or uncasing a device, including a firearm, archery equipment or slingshot, that is capable of discharging or propelling a projectile, except as provided in paragraph (2) or (7), or except in the owner’s building on a leased campsite, in the owner’s residence, or in the owner’s vehicle or trailer.

    This total ban, however, was overcome by a tweak to state law permitting concealed carry:

    18 Pa. C.S. § 6109. Licenses.
    (m.2) Inconsistent provisions.--Notwithstanding the provisions of section 7506 (relating to violation of rules regarding conduct on Commonwealth property), 75 Pa.C.S. § 7727 (relating to additional limitations on operation) or the act of June 28, 1995 (P.L.89, No.18), known as the Conservation and Natural Resources Act, and regulations promulgated under that act, a firearm may be carried as provided in subsection (a) by:
    (1) a law enforcement officer whose current identification as a law enforcement officer shall be construed as a valid license to carry a firearm; or
    (2) any licensee.

    The DCNR regulation itself is in violation of state law, but hasn't been legally challenged or amended:

    18 Pa. C.S. § 6109. Licenses.
    (m.3) Construction.--Nothing in this section shall be construed to:
    (2) Authorize any Commonwealth agency to regulate the possession of firearms in any manner inconsistent with the provisions of this title.

    Concerning Philadelphia, the lady is wrong. Any carry, whether open or concealed, is permitted in Philadelphia as long as one possesses an LTCF or is exempt:

    18 Pa. C.S. § 6108. Carrying firearms on public streets or public property in Philadelphia.
    No person shall carry a firearm, rifle or shotgun at any time upon the public streets or upon any public property in a city of the first class unless:
    (1) such person is licensed to carry a firearm; or
    (2) such person is exempt from licensing under section 6106(b) of this title (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license).

    The reason Philadelphia is "special" dates back to when the Uniform Firearms Act was first being implemented. In order to get the Philadelphia representatives to agree to standardizing everything statewide and eliminating local laws, a special exemption was made for Philadelphia. Could this exemption for Philadelphia be challenged in the courts under the equal protection concept? Probably, but someone with money and standing would have to do so.
    Thank you very much. She also said that it is legal to open carry a shotgun or rifle with a 14in barrel. Is she still wrong?
    She also said that you can not open carry in your car. Passenger or driver, is she still wrong?
    Last edited by Mr Birdman; 12-25-2015 at 09:21 PM. Reason: more info

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Birdman View Post
    She also said that it is legal to open carry a shotgun or rifle with a 14in barrel. Is she still wrong?
    No. There's no prohibition on open carrying a shotgun, a rifle, a short-barrel shotgun (SBS) or a short-barrel rifle (SBR), whether loaded or empty. The last two items, however, are NFA items and you'd best have the federal tax stamp to go with them. If carried in a vehicle, the rifle or shotgun must be unloaded (but the SBS and SBR can be carried loaded if one has an LTCF). If that has you confused a little, full-size rifles or shotguns are not listed as "firearms" under licensing definitions, but SBSs and SBRs qualify due to their shorter length and fall under LTCF protection.

    She also said that you can not open carry in your car. Passenger or driver, is she still wrong?
    Yes, she's wrong. There is no such thing in the statutes as either open carry in a car or concealed carry in a car, there is only carrying in a car.

    18 Pa. C.S. § 6109. Licenses.
    (a) Purpose of license.--A license to carry a firearm shall be for the purpose of carrying a firearm concealed on or about one's person or in a vehicle throughout this Commonwealth.

    As you can see, the purpose of the license lists two separate reasons - carrying concealed on or about one's person, or carrying in a vehicle. It does not specify how the firearm is to be carried in (or on) a vehicle, be it on one's hip, on one's lap, in a glove box, hanging from the ceiling or stapled or taped to one's forehead. Court rulings essentially state a vehicle is a conveyance to get one from Point A to Point B, so such could include a car, a truck, a train, a plane, a taxicab, a bicycle, a tricycle, a unicycle, a motorcycle, a moped, a skateboard, roller skates or blades, a horse or a riding mower. 75 Pa. C.S. § 7727, however, does not allow the carrying of firearms on ATVs or snowmobiles unless hunting.
    Last edited by Statkowski; 12-25-2015 at 11:28 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Statkowski View Post
    No. There's no prohibition on open carrying a shotgun, a rifle, a short-barrel shotgun (SBS) or a short-barrel rifle (SBR), whether loaded or empty. The last two items, however, are NFA items and you'd best have the federal tax stamp to go with them. If carried in a vehicle, the rifle or shotgun must be unloaded (but the SBS and SBR can be carried loaded if one has an LTCF). If that has you confused a little, full-size rifles or shotguns are not listed as "firearms" under licensing definitions, but SBSs and SBRs qualify due to their shorter length and fall under LTCF protection.



    Yes, she's wrong. There is no such thing in the statutes as either open carry in a car or concealed carry in a car, there is only carrying in a car.

    18 Pa. C.S. § 6109. Licenses.
    (a) Purpose of license.--A license to carry a firearm shall be for the purpose of carrying a firearm concealed on or about one's person or in a vehicle throughout this Commonwealth.

    As you can see, the purpose of the license lists two separate reasons - carrying concealed on or about one's person, or carrying in a vehicle. It does not specify how the firearm is to be carried in (or on) a vehicle, be it on one's hip, on one's lap, in a glove box, hanging from the ceiling or stapled or taped to one's forehead. Court rulings essentially state a vehicle is a conveyance to get one from Point A to Point B, so such could include a car, a truck, a train, a plane, a taxicab, a bicycle, a tricycle, a unicycle, a motorcycle, a moped, a skateboard, roller skates or blades, a horse or a riding mower. 75 Pa. C.S. § 7727, however, does not allow the carrying of firearms on ATVs or snowmobiles unless hunting.

    She said that the long guns must be under 18 in. Sorry for the confusion

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