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Thread: Serial number finished 80% lower

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Serial number finished 80% lower

    This subject came up on another forum. Basically the person bought an 80% lower, but was asking about coatings after the gun is finished. A couple people claimed that for a licensed coat shop to coat the gun the gun must have identifying marks. I cannot find anything requiring that except for manufacturers, and importers of firearms. It is not important to me, I just felt like picking your brains.(Zombie Groan)

    What I was told from a reputable online 80% seller is that no SN or other marks are required for repairs, painting counts as repairs. I contacted a Cerakote licensed dealer and got the same answer. Plus I researched AR15.com, yea it's the internet, but these guys are deep into their AR's, and 80% lowers. The answer is all the same.

    Personally I do not want a 80% lower, when I can buy a finished for the same, or less. Add to that if a person uses normal purchasing practice they are on the radar. Credit card, internet, UPS, internet. The only way to be really off the radar is pick it up in person, with cash, wearing a disguise.

    IF I did build one I would mark it, if stolen, or lost that would be the only way to enter it into the system.

    Hopefully I can discuss it here without sending someone into cardiac arrest, which I seem to be doing on the other forum. Guess it is just rude not to agree with someone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    [ ... ] Guess it is just rude not to agree with someone.
    I guess it is just thought rude not to agree with some shrinking violets. FIFY
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    Several ways of painting a finished 80% .. sending it out is one (albeit more expensive than simply buying the Brownell's spray paint and waiting a week for the coating to fully cure @ room temp).


    It would not require any serial # to be produce or to send out to be painted.

    Some paint prior to finishing, some do it afterwards.

    So these folks who refuse to paint a gun would not paint a gun that was produced prior to the requirement of serial numbers ? Because right now, one can make a gun without them so what's the difference.

    And repairs? I would not want to repair most receivers if they got damaged in any event ~ I would want the thing replaced. I can understand why a guy would not want to re-weld a receiver that has been purposefully cut in two. But since many are aluminum it would require a great deal of skill to accomplish such a task ~ and likely be more expensive than just making a new one from scratch.

    I never recommend that someone mark their homemade gun..if stolen or lost, I would consider it a loss. You go and tell a cop that a gun you made was stolen and expect issues.

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    This seems to be an issue with the shop owner, not the law. I have more than a dozen 80% ARs in my personal inventory, none have any markings on them at all. If I put a number on a lower at all, it would be found on the tab the pistol grip attaches to. The numbers are for ME and me only. None of my 80ARs have roll marks, altho I will put a glock logo on the 9mm that uses glock mags.

    The EDC Ruger I was carrying had duct tape over the serial number. If you want to "run my numbers", you will need a warrant. My "serial numbers" are my business, unless I am committing a crime. Go Away, Leave me alone. I am not the droid you are looking for.
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    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    This seems to be an issue with the shop owner, not the law. I have more than a dozen 80% ARs in my personal inventory, none have any markings on them at all. If I put a number on a lower at all, it would be found on the tab the pistol grip attaches to. The numbers are for ME and me only. None of my 80ARs have roll marks, altho I will put a glock logo on the 9mm that uses glock mags.

    The EDC Ruger I was carrying had duct tape over the serial number. If you want to "run my numbers", you will need a warrant. My "serial numbers" are my business, unless I am committing a crime. Go Away, Leave me alone. I am not the droid you are looking for.
    I have an email from BATFE "Merely, attaching black tape to a firearms serial number does not constitute a violation of Federal law."

    I might have some complete 80% receivers; and if I did none would have any markings either

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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    The EDC Ruger I was carrying had duct tape over the serial number. If you want to "run my numbers", you will need a warrant. My "serial numbers" are my business, unless I am committing a crime. Go Away, Leave me alone. I am not the droid you are looking for.
    I use a strip of black plastic electrical tape on mine. I intend to get some metallic foil bar code tags to attach over any numbers. As indicated, covering any markings is not alteration or destruction.

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    Regular Member Phoenix David's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    This subject came up on another forum. Basically the person bought an 80% lower, but was asking about coatings after the gun is finished. A couple people claimed that for a licensed coat shop to coat the gun the gun must have identifying marks. I cannot find anything requiring that except for manufacturers, and importers of firearms. It is not important to me, I just felt like picking your brains.(Zombie Groan)
    A 80% lower is just a hunk of metal in a particular shape, it's not a firearm

    So if I want my shovel coated would it need identifying marks?
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    Regular Member Phoenix David's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bc.cruiser View Post
    I use a strip of black plastic electrical tape on mine. I intend to get some metallic foil bar code tags to attach over any numbers. As indicated, covering any markings is not alteration or destruction.
    Maybe security tape would be better that way you would be able to tell if it was removed or tampered with.
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    You want tamper-evident labels. This, combined with any recordings you might have, is a slam dunk that the cop did an illegal search.

    http://www.amazon.com/Security-Warra...5TWZCDAZM0DDTP
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    Regular Member JustaShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix David View Post
    A 80% lower is just a hunk of metal in a particular shape, it's not a firearm

    So if I want my shovel coated would it need identifying marks?
    The OP was discussing getting the *completed* lower coated. Once complete, it is a firearm according to the BATFE.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustaShooter View Post
    The OP was discussing getting the *completed* lower coated. Once complete, it is a firearm according to the BATFE.
    Well, not always....could be a crossbow...not a firearm at all....

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/PSE-Tac-15-1...EAAOSwFnFWAvam


    So tell the coater its just a crossbow part. Sweet. Get yer own.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 12-31-2015 at 01:28 AM.

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    Regular Member JustaShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Well, not always....could be a crossbow...not a firearm at all....
    Sorry, no, per the BATFE a completed lower is a firearm. It doesn't matter if you decide to attach a crossbow upper or even a bubble maker upper if such a thing exists, the lower is s still a firearm according to BATFE.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustaShooter View Post
    Sorry, no, per the BATFE a completed lower is a firearm. It doesn't matter if you decide to attach a crossbow upper or even a bubble maker upper if such a thing exists, the lower is s still a firearm according to BATFE.
    I would disagree ... a firearm, by definition, expels a projectile via explosion creating gases that eject the projectile.

    But, again, one cannot regulate anyways ... need for ser #s is not mandatory.

    https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download

    The 4473 form, also indicates that it is not an "other" type of firearm.

    What form would a dealer complete? 4473 is not it.

    Also, can a felon own a crossbow? Yes.

    So anyone can buy a AR lower if the purpose is for a crossbow.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 12-31-2015 at 12:34 PM.

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    You can disagree David but I don't think your argument in this political environment well work well in court.


    Even though I agree the definition of what constitutes a firearm is all screwed up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I would disagree ... a firearm, by definition, expels a projectile via explosion creating gases that eject the projectile...
    Word definitions have scope.

    Legal definitions of "firearms" are different than practical definitions, and a completed AR lower is a legal firearm, regardless of its incapacity to currently do anything.
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    Regular Member Phoenix David's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustaShooter View Post
    The OP was discussing getting the *completed* lower coated. Once complete, it is a firearm according to the BATFE.
    Sorry my mistake on that.
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