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Thread: Open Carry without a permit?

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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Open Carry without a permit?

    Ran across this article and wondered on it's accuracy as I do have a deep distrust of mainstream media. Handgunlaw would seem to disagree but it's not always fully uptodate

    It is already legal in the state to open carry without a permit, but lawmakers are considering a bill allowing concealed carry without requiring training or a permit.
    http://www.13abc.com/home/headlines/...299524521.html
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    Regular Member JustaShooter's Avatar
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    Open carry is legal in Ohio, with the caveats that you cannot have a loaded handgun in a motor vehicle without a CHL (and "unloaded" has a peculiarly Ohio meaning), and cannot carry into a Class D establishment (liquor by the drink) without a CHL.

    As to permitless carry, a bill was introduced last legislative session, and didn't go anywhere. I hadn't seen that it was reintroduced yet this session but it could have - and won't likely go anywhere this time either.

    Edit: Yup, they reintroduced the permitless carry bill earlier this year - and I apparently overlooked it or forgot about it. Anyway, with our governor playing at running for POTUS (actually, I and many others think he is running for VPOTUS...) nothing is likely to happen until he drops out at the earliest, and more likely not until after the elections next year - it's the Ohio way...
    Last edited by JustaShooter; 12-31-2015 at 12:08 AM.
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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustaShooter View Post
    Open carry is legal in Ohio, with the caveats that you cannot have a loaded handgun in a motor vehicle without a CHL (and "unloaded" has a peculiarly Ohio meaning), and cannot carry into a Class D establishment (liquor by the drink) without a CHL.

    As to permitless carry, a bill was introduced last legislative session, and didn't go anywhere. I hadn't seen that it was reintroduced yet this session but it could have - and won't likely go anywhere this time either.
    Interesting. I have family just east of Cleveland. What about the definition of unloaded? First off I don't drive but of course others I know certainly do
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    Regular Member JustaShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    Interesting. I have family just east of Cleveland. What about the definition of unloaded? First off I don't drive but of course others I know certainly do
    From http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.11 section (K)(3)(a):
    (a) "Unloaded" means

    , with respect to a firearm other than a firearm described in division (K)(6) of this section, that no ammunition is in the firearm in question, no magazine or speed loader containing ammunition is inserted into the firearm in question , and one of the following applies:

    (i) There is no ammunition in a magazine or speed loader that is in the vehicle in question and that may be used with the firearm in question.

    (ii) Any magazine or speed loader that contains ammunition and that may be used with the firearm in question is stored in a compartment within the vehicle in question that cannot be accessed without leaving the vehicle or is stored in a container that provides complete and separate enclosure.

    (b) For the purposes of division (K)(5)(a)(ii) of this section, a "container that provides complete and separate enclosure" includes, but is not limited to, any of the following:

    (i) A package, box, or case with multiple compartments, as long as the loaded magazine or speed loader and the firearm in question either are in separate compartments within the package, box, or case, or, if they are in the same compartment, the magazine or speed loader is contained within a separate enclosure in that compartment that does not contain the firearm and that closes using a snap, button, buckle, zipper, hook and loop closing mechanism, or other fastener that must be opened to access the contents or the firearm is contained within a separate enclosure of that nature in that compartment that does not contain the magazine or speed loader;

    (ii) A pocket or other enclosure on the person of the person in question that closes using a snap, button, buckle, zipper, hook and loop closing mechanism, or other fastener that must be opened to access the contents.
    So, nothing in the gun, gun in a container (or compartment that cannot be accessed without exiting the vehicle) and loaded magazines/speedloaders in a container that provides complete and separate enclosure.

    For example, gun in glove box, and loaded mag/speedloader in center console (assuming both close with a fastener of some kind). Or, my favorite, gun in center compartment of range bag, mag/speedloaders in outer pockets that close with velcro, bag on passenger seat...

    Edit: Forgot another fun one: Gun in center console, loaded mags in belt pouch as long as belt pouch completely encloses mags and closes with a fastener, like velcro or a snap.
    Last edited by JustaShooter; 12-31-2015 at 12:33 AM.
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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustaShooter View Post
    From http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.11 section (K)(3)(a):


    So, nothing in the gun, gun in a container (or compartment that cannot be accessed without exiting the vehicle) and loaded magazines/speedloaders in a container that provides complete and separate enclosure.

    For example, gun in glove box, and loaded mag/speedloader in center console (assuming both close with a fastener of some kind). Or, my favorite, gun in center compartment of range bag, mag/speedloaders in outer pockets that close with velcro, bag on passenger seat...
    So what about the permits themselves? Training still required and do you still have to alert a police officer if you're carrying?
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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    So what about the permits themselves? Training still required and do you still have to alert a police officer if you're carrying?
    Yes and yes. (with respect to CC)

    No and no. (with respect to OC)
    Last edited by BB62; 12-31-2015 at 01:02 PM. Reason: Quoted OP fully and clarified b/c OP's later post referred to OC, not CC, which seemingly (??) was the basis of the question

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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    Yes and yes.
    hey Mr Police officer, I know my gun is clearly visible but i'm still going to tell you i'm carrying despite the fact I could scare a rookie and get shot. Mindless. Sooner people get off their backsides and demand their rights to carry with no permit the better
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    Regular Member Animalou812's Avatar
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    If you are open carrying you do not have to advise the LEO or produce an ID or answer any questions.


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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Animalou812 View Post
    If you are open carrying you do not have to advise the LEO or produce an ID or answer any questions.
    Cite Ohio law, please.
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    Regular Member JustaShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Animalou812 View Post
    If you are open carrying you do not have to advise the LEO ...
    Correct, unless in a motor vehicle at the time. Per ORC 2923.126, Section A, you only need to notify if you are carrying a concealed handgun when stopped:

    http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.126
    If a licensee is stopped for a law enforcement purpose and if the licensee is carrying a concealed handgun at the time the officer approaches, the licensee shall promptly inform any law enforcement officer who approaches the licensee while stopped that the licensee has been issued a concealed handgun license and that the licensee currently is carrying a concealed handgun;
    But, when in a motor vehicle, earlier in the same section it says you must notify if you have a loaded handgun in the vehicle - so whether concealed or not, you must notify:

    If a licensee is the driver or an occupant of a motor vehicle that is stopped as the result of a traffic stop or a stop for another law enforcement purpose and if the licensee is transporting or has a loaded handgun in the motor vehicle at that time, the licensee shall promptly inform any law enforcement officer who approaches the vehicle while stopped that the licensee has been issued a concealed handgun license and that the licensee currently possesses or has a loaded handgun;
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 12-31-2015 at 11:04 PM. Reason: rule #19
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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    hey Mr Police officer, I know my gun is clearly visible but i'm still going to tell you i'm carrying despite the fact I could scare a rookie and get shot. Mindless. Sooner people get off their backsides and demand their rights to carry with no permit the better
    Your question, as I read it, applied to what was in the article - CONCEALED carry, and my answers ("yes" to training currently being required, and "yes" to notification if stopped while concealing) were to that form of carry.

    If you were talking about OPEN carry (which again, was NOT the subject of the article), then no training is required, and no notification is required.

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    To put a different spin on things for the OP's benefit: in Ohio, a loaded handgun in a car is considered "concealed, even if it's hanging from your rearview mirror.

    As such, and as previously stated, one needs an Ohio Concealed Handgun License (CHL) or its equivalent, to carry a loaded handgun in a car.

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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    To put a different spin on things for the OP's benefit: in Ohio, a loaded handgun in a car is considered "concealed, even if it's hanging from your rearview mirror.

    As such, and as previously stated, one needs an Ohio Concealed Handgun License (CHL) or its equivalent, to carry a loaded handgun in a car.
    That's the same kind of male bovine fecal matter that Wisconsin has. And who was it who came out with that expression here on OCDO? It was 2AM when I read it and about choked myself trying not to burst into fits of laughter
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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Animalou812 View Post
    If you are open carrying you do not have to advise the LEO or produce an ID or answer any questions.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Cite Ohio law, please.
    2923.126 Duties of licensed individual.

    If a licensee is stopped for a law enforcement purpose and if the licensee is carrying a concealed handgun at the time the officer approaches, the licensee shall promptly inform any law enforcement officer who approaches the licensee while stopped that the licensee has been issued a concealed handgun license and that the licensee currently is carrying a concealed handgun; the licensee shall not knowingly disregard or fail to comply with lawful orders of a law enforcement officer given while the licensee is stopped or knowingly fail to keep the licensee's hands in plain sight after any law enforcement officer begins approaching the licensee while stopped and before the officer leaves, unless directed otherwise by a law enforcement officer; and the licensee shall not knowingly remove, attempt to remove, grasp, or hold the loaded handgun or knowingly have contact with the loaded handgun by touching it with the licensee's hands or fingers, in any manner in violation of division (B) of section 2923.12 of the Revised Code, after any law enforcement officer begins approaching the licensee while stopped and before the officer leaves.
    Does this say concealed? Yes but it's low hanging fruit just waiting to be abused. I read a case in Wisconsin where a driver gave an officer his permit in order to comply and he was still prosecuted as that wasnt classed as fast enough.
    Last edited by rightwinglibertarian; 12-31-2015 at 05:19 PM. Reason: added link to cite
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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    [ ... ] I read a case in Wisconsin where a driver gave an officer his permit in order to comply and he was still prosecuted as that wasnt classed as fast enough. Reason: added link to cite
    Did you? Please do so.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grapeshot View Post
    cite ohio law, please.
    ORC 9.68, paragraph C, sub paragraph 1
    Last edited by jackson; 02-14-2016 at 04:34 AM.

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