Citizen
Founder's Club Member
Can you OC in a brewery and drink?
18.2-308 says you can carry concealed without a permit in your own place of business.
So, everybody should open a distillery or brewery!
:banana:
Can you OC in a brewery and drink?
I'm failing to see how any of this discussion, with the exception of post #1, pertains to open carry. And, post #1 was only vaguely related to open carry by asking a question.
This thread should be shut down.
Remember the brown bag clubs? They didn't sell alcoholic spirits - they sold the mixers and kept your bottle behind the [strike]bar[/strike] counter.Strongly disagree.
VCDL fought for YEARS to get the so-called 'Restaurant Ban' repealed. The main argument that VCDL was making was about eating at a Red Lobster or some other place where alcoholic beverages were being served for on-premises consumption, whether you intended to drink or not. The other side dragged out the usual parade of horribles about getting drunk in bars; VCDL's rebuttal was that there are no bars in the Commonwealth.
That could change.
It's important to understand the history of 'liquor by the drink' in Virginia post-repeal of Prohibition and the continuing influence of the Temperance Movement.
Back in the 60's, many counties were dry. a few might still be.
The last thing we need right now is any risk of backsliding.
Remember the brown bag clubs? They didn't sell alcoholic spirits - they sold the mixers and kept your bottle behind the [strike]bar[/strike] counter.
Virginia has permitted sale of "liquor by the drink" in food establishments (as opposed to whole-bottle sales in ABC stores) only since 1968. Restaurants and the entertainment industry lobbied for that change in the 1960's. Liquor by the drink eliminated the "brown bag" requirement that customers join a private club and bring their own bottle to the restaurant in order to enjoy a drink before a meal.
Not every community in Virginia allows alcohol sales. In some rural Virginia counties, there have been odd alliances of religious opponents opposed to the use of alcohol and moonshiners who wanted to protect their business from legalized competition. Since 1968, however, the lure of additional tax revenue from ABC payments and especially from restaurants selling liquor by the drink has overcome the opposition in nearly every jurisdiction.
When Virginia ended Prohibition in 1934, restaurants and retail stores were allowed once again to sell beer and wine. But sales of distilled spirits were limited, by the bottle, to state-controlled stores managed by the Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control.
A yearslong movement to allow restaurants to serve mixed drinks peaked in 1968, when Virginia’s General Assembly was consumed by an emotional debate over what newspaper headline writers dubbed “the whiskey bill.”
Hundreds of citizens on both sides — the wets and the drys — descended on the state capital to champion or condemn proposed legislation that would give each locality in Virginia the option of deciding, by referendum, whether its bars and restaurants should be allowed to sell mixed drinks.
At the time, the Women’s Christian Temperance Union played a key role in the opposition.
“You’ve got the women stirred up and when you’ve got the women stirred up you’ve got trouble,” Aaron Conner, then moderator of the Roanoke Valley Baptist Association, told a House committee. According to newspaper accounts at the time, opponents predicted a rush on bars and saloons, where hard-drinking patrons would overindulge even when served diluted highballs by unscrupulous businesses looking for greater profits.
“Short shot glasses with watered-down whiskey carry more gold than mules ever did,” said William Swartz, a Roanoke businessman.
Others implored the General Assembly to “move Virginia from the archaic backwoods” by allowing the sale of mixed drinks.
In the end, lawmakers opted against a statewide referendum on the issue and instead gave each city and county the option to let their own voters decide. Larger cities were among the first to approve liquor by the drink. The state’s more rural and conservative areas were slower to follow.
Well guns and alcohol do not mix.--snipped--
It was so easy for the gun-control activists to say: "Guns and alcohol don't mix!" -- bringing 'bars and saloons' to Virginia will surely resurrect that anti-gun refrain.
Well guns and alcohol do not mix.
Alcohol strips the oil/lubricant/protection from guns....is a very bad thing.
So does acetone as well...
I don't think think alcohol should be served in public. I think alcohol should only be sold for home consumption. Serving alcohol in public inevitably leads to drunk driving. Millions of lives have been ruined by drunk driving. I think America needs to recognize the insanity of serving people alcohol who will in all likelihood drive away from the establishment, and move on to a more enlightened public policy on alcohol. Tough drunk driving laws have reduced, but not eliminated, drunk driving. One drunk driver can wipe out a whole family, or render a formerly productive citizen into a broken and ruined body, dependent on a lifetime of medical care. With almost 34 years in EMS, I have seen way too many tragedies caused by drunk drivers. Serving drivers alcohol is madness of the highest order. Restaurants can survive without alcohol. Bars can convert to restaurants. Private alcohol clubs should be heavily regulated and have sufficient controls in place to absolutely prevent drunk driving, whether that means supervised designated driver programs, or being required to offer mandatory inn service to their members.
Suicide is not normally legal, although I can't imagine an effective personal penalty for succeeding.People are free to put into their bodies whatever they want. Madness or not....its called freedom.
If freedom is insanity; I rather not be sane.
ETA: Oh! hey, now! I just remembered. George Washington became the largest distiller in the US at that time, according to the website of the distillery near Mt. Vernon. According to the website, a lot of his white liquor was shipped straight up the road to Alexandria. Now, I'll bet anything it wasn't the upper crust sipping his white liquor like cognac after dinner. Wanta bet a lot of that adult beverage flowed into bars? Now, who was a bigger patriot than George Washington?
The poster above who mentioned that drinkers don't have to buy food in a VA restaurant that serves alcohol blithely writes to the effect that VA has the best of both worlds. As I was reading that, it occurred to me that a fellow who wants to retire from his IT job or whatever and would like to go into business for himself by opening a respectable bar...the poster above is effectively saying in that fellow's face:
.
You will waste $70K-100K of your savings on cooking equipment, refrigeration equipment, dishwashing equipment, and so forth. Because, if you don't, I am willing to see you ruined financially or caged (imprisoned). Or, you will waste that amount, plus more (interest) on the business loan you take out. Meaning, you don't get to enjoy the profits on your second career as soon as you would if you didn't have to buy all that extra restaurant stuff. And, you will hire cooking staff, who you will also have to manage, draining more or your time. And, buster, you had better do it, or else..
Oh, and with all that restaurant stuff comes heavy regulatory burdens. Now, our fellow who just wants to run a respectable bar has to worry about health inspection aspects he wouldn't have as a bar. Is the dishwasher running at the right temp? Is the refrigeration equipment cool enough? Does he have the required fire extinguisher system above the grille?
No, the massive taxes he and his patrons would have to pay on the alcohol isn't enough. Lets stick it to him even harder!
The amount of anti-liberty rhetoric in this thread is staggering.
If liberty is making it as easy as possible for people to get smashed and then do what comes too naturally to the grossly impaired...then I'll stick with constitutional rights.
I'm single issue where guns are concerned. I don't much care what someone thinks about any other topic.
But if we're going to discuss access to booze, I'll happily accept the 21st amendment that explicitly recognizes the power of the States to set liquor controls as they see fit.
Within the widest limits, what a man does in his own home is his own business. What he does in public is sometimes another matter.
Charles
Now before anyone calls me out on the "society is not a real victim" accusation, I'll point out that when these folks drive drunk, or just drink themselves into a coma, and come see me(in the emergency room) it often gets funded by Uncle Sam- which I see get taken out of my paycheck personally. Now of course they are just an excuse for the federal government to take my money by force, but they do provide a cost to us personally. I take a hit in my paycheck when the corporation I work for has to eat cost of their medical services, and I take another hit from Uncle Sam every two weeks.
For that reason, I can't think of a good gun law. But if we want to do away with substance and alcohol laws, then we better dang well do away with me and you footing the bill for their medical and psychological care.
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Within the widest limits, what a man does in his own home is his own business. What he does in public is sometimes another matter.
Charles
Do you believe that my consumption of a beer in a restaurant is any of your business?
Not "a beer," but the ramifications of drinking & driving then seriously injuring or killing one of mine would bring it close to home.
No law or opinion can make that right.......the bell will have been rung.
These laws are specific to the carry of a concealed firearm. OC is exempt in my view. In other words, OCing while having a beer while bellied up is not a violation of 571.107 and as long as it stays in the holster 571.030 is not violated. Agree or disagree, being drunk is not confined to the bar or car.RSMo 571.030. Unlawful use of weapons--exceptions--penalties. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly: ...
(5) Has a firearm or projectile weapon readily capable of lethal use on his or her person, while he or she is intoxicated, and handles or otherwise uses such firearm or projectile weapon in either a negligent or unlawful manner or discharges such firearm or projectile weapon unless acting in self-defense; or ...
5. Subdivisions (3), (4), (5), (6), (7), (8), (9), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to persons who are engaged in a lawful act of defense pursuant to section 563.031. ...
RSMo 571.107. Permit does not authorize concealed firearms, where--penalty for violation.
1. A concealed carry permit issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121, a valid concealed carry endorsement issued prior to August 28, 2013, or a concealed carry endorsement or permit issued by another state or political subdivision of another state shall authorize the person in whose name the permit or endorsement is issued to carry concealed firearms on or about his or her person or vehicle throughout the state. No concealed carry permit issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121, valid concealed carry endorsement issued prior to August 28, 2013, or a concealed carry endorsement or permit issued by another state or political subdivision of another state shall authorize any person to carry concealed firearms into: ...
(7) Any establishment licensed to dispense intoxicating liquor for consumption on the premises, which portion is primarily devoted to that purpose, without the consent of the owner or manager. The provisions of this subdivision shall not apply to the licensee of said establishment. The provisions of this subdivision shall not apply to any bona fide restaurant open to the general public having dining facilities for not less than fifty persons and that receives at least fifty-one percent of its gross annual income from the dining facilities by the sale of food. This subdivision does not prohibit the possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises of the establishment and shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises. Nothing in this subdivision authorizes any individual who has been issued a concealed carry permit or endorsement to possess any firearm while intoxicated; ...
Why are we quoting Missouri law on a Virginia forum?These laws are specific to the carry of a concealed firearm. OC is exempt in my view. In other words, OCing while having a beer while bellied up is not a violation of 571.107 and as long as it stays in the holster 571.030 is not violated. Agree or disagree, being drunk is not confined to the bar or car.
responsibility/responsible behavior is not confined only to gun owners who are teetottlers.
Do you believe that my consumption of a beer in a restaurant is any of your business?
I was asking specifically about drinking a beer in a restaurant. Driving after drinking to the level of impairment is already illegal.