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Thread: Armed Militia Take over Federal Reserve

  1. #1
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Armed Militia Take over Federal Reserve

    Oregon, the history behind this is full of government tyranny.

    https://www.rt.com/usa/327762-armed-...egon-ranchers/
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  2. #2
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    https://www.superstation95.com/index.php/world/723

    A history of what has been going on.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  3. #3
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    See exaggeration and distortion on both sides - clouds the issue.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  4. #4
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    See exaggeration and distortion on both sides - clouds the issue.
    Of course.

    Yet one side has misused, abused, and crapped all over the constitution.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Already knew the topic here but the thread title seems a bit misleading, whether by accident or not: When I think of a "Federal Reserve", a big building downtown full of cash comes to mind, not a National Forest HQ. No offense intended, SVG.

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    IMHO this is definitely worth a read, and is stomach-turning.


    http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/01/03/full-story-on-whats-going-on-in-oregon-militia-take-over-malheur-national-wildlife-refuge-in-protest-to-hammond-family-persecution/#more-110497


    Many people will awaken today to the news of approximately 100 to 150 armed militia taking control of a closed Wildlife Park Headquarters, and not know the full back-story – so here it is:

    The short summary is: in an effort to draw attention to a ridiculous arrest of a father and son pair of Oregon Ranchers (“Dwight Lincoln Hammond, Jr., 73, and his son, Steven Dwight Hammond, 46,) who are scheduled to begin five year prison sentences (turning themselves in tomorrow January 4th 2016), three brothers from the Cliven Bundy family and approximately 100/150 (and growing) heavily armed militia (former U.S. service members) have taken control of Malheur Wildlife Refuge Headquarters in the wildlife reserve. They are prepared to stay there indefinitely.

    Here’s the long version: including history, details, links video(s) and explanations: ...

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    Regular Member Griz's Avatar
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    One should not piss off an armed adversary unless willing to risk in giving up some blood.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    --snipped--

    Many people will awaken today to the news of approximately 100 to 150 armed militia taking control of a closed Wildlife Park Headquarters, and not know the full back-story......
    Another report by a person delivering meals/food indicated that there were 15 men there.

    Unfortunately, I cannot find that link.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  10. #10
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian D. View Post
    Already knew the topic here but the thread title seems a bit misleading, whether by accident or not: When I think of a "Federal Reserve", a big building downtown full of cash comes to mind, not a National Forest HQ. No offense intended, SVG.
    Thank you for the constructive criticism. I copied and pasted that is my bad.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  11. #11
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Another report by a person delivering meals/food indicated that there were 15 men there.

    Unfortunately, I cannot find that link.
    That is interesting.

    I'd like to read that.

    The internet is often a fickle female dog.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    That is interesting. I'd like to read that. The internet is often a fickle female dog.
    I think puppy mommy is cute enough to miss censor 'bots. I recently got booted for calling Hillary a self-loader that had shot her wad. Who'da thunk it?
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  13. #13
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    I think puppy mommy is cute enough to miss censor 'bots. I recently got booted for calling Hillary a self-loader that had shot her wad. Who'da thunk it?
    +1 Will have to remember that.

    I guess that makes me an illegitimate puppy.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    The liberal message is clear: "People are afraid."

    The Hammond's message is also clear: "Neither Ammon Bundy nor anyone within his group/organization speak for the Hammond family," the Hammonds' attorney W. Alan Schroeder wrote to Harney County Sheriff David Ward.

    Apparently, Ammon Bundy, son of Clive Bundy, the Nevada rancher, is the one behind this.

    I applaud Ammon for having the guts to step forward, but unfortunately, it's likely he'll be hit with a number of federal charges in the end.

    Regardless, he's right: The feds have a very nasty, filthy, disgusting habit of abusing their power as a means of coercing compliance, particularly along lines where their legitimate authority is weak but their reward is high.

    Dear Liberals: You should be afraid. VERY afraid. However, you should NEVER be afraid of your fellow citizens who chose to defend themselves and their loved ones against the bad guys. That sort of fear is both stupid and very misguided.
    Last edited by since9; 01-04-2016 at 02:17 AM.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Another report by a person delivering meals/food indicated that there were 15 men there.

    Unfortunately, I cannot find that link.
    85-135 women are there too then?

  16. #16
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Malhuer Wildlife Refuge- situation report

    Asked how many militia members were at the headquarters, Bundy demurred. “I will not disclose,” he said. “Operational security.”

    Around dinner time, a local couple* who owns an RV park just a few miles from the refuge dropped off leftover chili and soup for the men to eat.

    *Ron Gainer estimated he counted about 15 people, a half dozen vehicles and a trailer at the headquarters. The Bundy family had previously told OPB around 150 people had joined their cause at the refuge.

    http://www.opb.org/news/article/mili...bundy-hammond/
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    ... Regardless, he's right: The feds have a very nasty, filthy, disgusting habit of abusing their power as a means of coercing compliance, particularly along lines where their legitimate authority is weak but their reward is high. ...
    Imagine a world where the minions of the state were to state to their overseer(s) "...uh, you want them outta there, you get off your backside and gettem outta there. I happen to agree with their point and support their non-violent acts. As far as I can tell I'll still be going home tonight and they are camping out."

    Not gunna happen though...minions are called minions for a reason.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  18. #18
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Imagine a world where the minions of the state were to state to their overseer(s) "...uh, you want them outta there, you get off your backside and gettem outta there. I happen to agree with their point and support their non-violent acts. As far as I can tell I'll still be going home tonight and they are camping out."

    Not gunna happen though...minions are called minions for a reason.
    +1
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  19. #19
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    Some semi-random thoughts:

    1-Were the federal facility to have been occupied by unarmed, liberal peaceniks rather than armed (and easy to describe as) "militia members" I suspect the media reaction would be very different. As examples recall the reports on the so-called "Occupy Wall Street" movement. Notice how even rioting, inner-city looters and arsonists were reported on compared to how the scary militia members are portrayed.

    2-While I don't think #1 can be disputed, we are left to wonder whether the difference in media treatment is due to the political leanings of the occupiers, the fact that they are visibly and vocally armed, and/or that they call themselves "not a militia" rather than a "movement".

    3-I do think #1 and a likely part of #2 demonstrate how adding a firearm to the mix can so dramatically affect public perception as well as possible legal consequences. A perfectly peaceful act of civil disobedience looks materially different when the actors are armed. An armed "protest" is going to be viewed differently than an unarmed protest. Take such things into account and make an informed decision before engaging in any kind of civil disobedience while armed.

    4-I do see a somewhat troubling trend. Those who use violence or are armed (with large enough numbers) might reasonably expect to go unpunished as seen in various inner-city riots and the Bundy ranch case. Those who are not armed, or are too small a number, or not violent, might well expect severe legal penalties to come down as seen in Utah in the DeChristopher mineral rights bidding case and the recent ATV protest ride on a road the BLM closed to ATV traffic (while continuing to allow trucks to use the road as the right-of-way access to a municipal water well), or even from the history of the civil rights movement. Regardless of where we stand politically with any of these examples or many others, it is a very dangerous trend, I think, to send the message that mob/armed/violent action is how to avoid legal consequences for conduct that would bring down criminal penalties in other cases. Without respect for rule of law--respect from both civil authorities and the general public--we can't have much confidence in the protections the law is supposed to provide. I don't have any reason to think the younger Bundy is an agent provocateur. But if one wanted to wear a tin foil hat too tight, someone on the right side of the spectrum stirring up conservatives to this kind of action could be one way to further erode respect for law, to create crisis, and then have reason for dramatic government action.

    5--Land use policies and federal control of land west of the Kansas / Colorado State line have been constitutionally suspect and highly offensive to many Western residents for going on 100 years now. What little I know of the jail sentence for the ranchers also strikes me as troubling, at least. That said, I'm not inclined to be any more supportive of uninvited carpetbaggers here than I would be anywhere else. That I might share more political agreement with this set of carpetbaggers than some others doesn't seem a decent reason to change that position.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  20. #20
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Charles, I don't disagree with your thoughts in general, but as been said for ever, politics are local. Armed protesters always effect the dynamics of a protest. Governments will constantly push the envelope in attacking the citizen's rights. And yes, vigilance is the price of freedom.

  21. #21
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Correction; Armed vigilance is the price of freedom.

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    Do civilian/unarmed folks have to pledge allegiance to their militia in order to visit the public lands that they are occupying?
    Last edited by beebobby; 01-05-2016 at 10:04 AM.

  23. #23
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    Do civilian/unarmed folks have to pledge allegiance to their militia in order to visit the public lands that they are occupying?
    Purposefully avoiding the issue?
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Realize I ask these questions NOT in opposition, but out of a desire to understand.

    This action was taken out of a claim that 2 people (of another family) have been treated unfairly by being required to return to federal custody and imprisonment. However, the 2 people in question, as well as their family, have stated that the "occupiers" do not speak for the family or the convicted persons. While I do not agree with many of the BLM actions and policies or its long term agenda, does not only the lack of support - but outright opposition - by the supposedly aggrieved party not undercut the standing and validity of this action?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Purposefully avoiding the issue?
    The issue is that this militia has decided who can and can't have access to these public lands. If you don't know the answer, just say so. Perhaps someone else knows.

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