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Thread: Texas, We Have a Problem

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    Lone Star Veteran Ian's Avatar
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    Texas, We Have a Problem

    I guess I didn't truly realize how big of an issue this was until last night when I went to business after business that was posted 30.07. I'm guessing that Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America has ran a huge campaign contacting Texas business associations and getting them to spread info to businesses across the state that there is an "outcry" to ban guns in stores from customers. Unfortunately this group is putting out an image to small businesses that allowing open carry in their establishment will be like having people with scary black rifles holding American flags when in reality it's the people that have been concealed carrying in their businesses for years and the only difference is an article of clothing behind the gun instead of in front of it. Another negative effect of this is that some businesses that were otherwise un-posted for concealed carry are also putting up 30.06 with the 30.07.

    Last night I also discovered Texas3006.com, and I would suggest taking a look over there and updating businesses as you see them posted so we can all be informed when we are out and about. I have also heard stories on other websites of people seeing 30.07 signs that weren't technically legal due to letters not being 1" etc... I hope everyone here realizes that open carrying past a sign like that into a business that doesn't want open carry is not how we should go about trying to change people's minds about this. We're supposed to be the most responsible and law-abiding group of Texans in the state according to crime statistics. If you don't see the sign, that's one thing, but we shouldn't be calling out businesses on technicalities when we know what their intent is. If you're OC, they're going to ask you to leave anyways.

    Don't get discouraged. This is a new thing and once the fear mongering from anti-gun groups dies down and we have real data to show businesses, we will have to start convincing these businesses one by one why they should not alienate almost a million Texans and their money.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Fear mongering, the people and shops will get the message that it just isn't so - no shoot outs, no blood in the streets, just normal, responsible people going about their daily routines.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

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    In 1996 when SC passed their first legal regular carry law, The Law Abiding Citizens Self-Defense Act, the state Chamber of Commerce passed out gun-buster signs all over the state and the story of liability without one. It took a few years of legislation to smooth that out.

    SECTION 23-31-205. Name. This article may be cited as the "Law Abiding Citizens Self-Defense Act of 1996".
    http://scstatehouse.gov/code/t23c031.php
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member qednick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    I guess I didn't truly realize how big of an issue this was until last night when I went to business after business that was posted 30.07. I'm guessing that Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America has ran a huge campaign contacting Texas business associations and getting them to spread info to businesses across the state that there is an "outcry" to ban guns in stores from customers. Unfortunately this group is putting out an image to small businesses that allowing open carry in their establishment will be like having people with scary black rifles holding American flags when in reality it's the people that have been concealed carrying in their businesses for years and the only difference is an article of clothing behind the gun instead of in front of it. Another negative effect of this is that some businesses that were otherwise un-posted for concealed carry are also putting up 30.06 with the 30.07.

    Last night I also discovered Texas3006.com, and I would suggest taking a look over there and updating businesses as you see them posted so we can all be informed when we are out and about. I have also heard stories on other websites of people seeing 30.07 signs that weren't technically legal due to letters not being 1" etc... I hope everyone here realizes that open carrying past a sign like that into a business that doesn't want open carry is not how we should go about trying to change people's minds about this. We're supposed to be the most responsible and law-abiding group of Texans in the state according to crime statistics. If you don't see the sign, that's one thing, but we shouldn't be calling out businesses on technicalities when we know what their intent is. If you're OC, they're going to ask you to leave anyways.

    Don't get discouraged. This is a new thing and once the fear mongering from anti-gun groups dies down and we have real data to show businesses, we will have to start convincing these businesses one by one why they should not alienate almost a million Texans and their money.
    Ian, was this is the Austin area? I haven't really seen any in San Antonio except H.E.B. and the other well known 30.07 posters.

  5. #5
    Lone Star Veteran Ian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qednick View Post
    Ian, was this is the Austin area? I haven't really seen any in San Antonio except H.E.B. and the other well known 30.07 posters.
    That's correct. I suspect Austin will have the most 30.07 signs given how liberal the city is.

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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Tell you what. Why don't we get a list of stores that do and I'll target them from the news page as dangerous potential deathtraps. A bit of negative publicity should work wonders if they get enough attention for that behavior. And updating the Friend or Foe would also be a good idea as well as going out one day while not carrying and hitting all those stores with go guns no $$ cards. And yes Austin is super liberal but maybe there is hope for it if the few good people get off their hind ends and work to educate people
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

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    Lone Star Veteran Ian's Avatar
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    http://www.texas3006.com/view.php?po...ype=30.07+Sign

    There you go. These are all the reported businesses so far that have 30.07 signs up at least in Austin. You can search by city at the top.

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    Regular Member fozzy71's Avatar
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    Don't mind me, just lurking from MI waiting for the blood to start running in the streets and sorely disappointed so far.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    http://www.texas3006.com/view.php?po...ype=30.07+Sign

    There you go. These are all the reported businesses so far that have 30.07 signs up at least in Austin. You can search by city at the top.
    Wow, that is one poorly formatted/styled site.
    "I like users who quote smellslikemichigan in their signature lines." - fozzy71

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    Lone Star Veteran Ian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fozzy71 View Post
    Don't mind me, just lurking from MI waiting for the blood to start running in the streets and sorely disappointed so far.



    Wow, that is one poorly formatted/styled site.
    I agree with you, but it's the only resource I've found for 30.07 businesses.

  10. #10
    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    I agree with you, but it's the only resource I've found for 30.07 businesses.
    Thats why we need to add to the Friend or Foe map and target the offending businesses online.
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

    "Any and all restrictions on the bearing of arms in public places are nullified as per the Second Amendment"

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    I haven't seen a 30.07 sign yet.

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    Regular Member kinggabby's Avatar
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    Oklahoma chiming in. I am so glad y'all have open carry. I just had that your signs have weight of law behind them. In Oklahoma if a place is posted and you are asked to leave and you don't then the worse you can get is a trespass ticket ( $250 ). So when asked to leave just leave. In the little town I live most places are not posted so it is good to go. I heard Walmart tried to post no weapon signs here ( not state wide ) but because of local backlash they pulled them down in less than a week. When the law was new LEO would check ID's After a few months they stopped . I remember anti's using the old " Blood in the streets" . Most people don't know ( pay attention ) because they are lost in their little worlds. In the past several years I have only had a few negative encounters ( only one LEO related) . I have always found it funny when a person walks up to me ( going out of their way to do so) and tell me how nervous I made them. I know if someone made me nervous I would not walk up and confront them ( especially if they had a gun ) . The only thing I want to add is be polite and friendly . Use encounters to educate people. Even if they decide to be rude tell them to have a nice day, blessed day or however you wish to do so. But always be kind in your words and deeds. And don't be discouraged and give up. The powers that be do not want up to use our rights. And only by showing the fence riders that we are good kind people will they ever see us as normal. Never be afraid to answer questions. If they want to know if it is legal inform them of it. If they want to know how can they do it let them know. Keep up the good work and make it normal for people.

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kinggabby View Post
    Oklahoma chiming in. I am so glad y'all have open carry. I just had that your signs have weight of law behind them. In Oklahoma if a place is posted and you are asked to leave and you don't then the worse you can get is a trespass ticket ( $250 ). So when asked to leave just leave. In the little town I live most places are not posted so it is good to go. I heard Walmart tried to post no weapon signs here ( not state wide ) but because of local backlash they pulled them down in less than a week. When the law was new LEO would check ID's After a few months they stopped . I remember anti's using the old " Blood in the streets" . Most people don't know ( pay attention ) because they are lost in their little worlds. In the past several years I have only had a few negative encounters ( only one LEO related) . I have always found it funny when a person walks up to me ( going out of their way to do so) and tell me how nervous I made them. I know if someone made me nervous I would not walk up and confront them ( especially if they had a gun ) . The only thing I want to add is be polite and friendly . Use encounters to educate people. Even if they decide to be rude tell them to have a nice day, blessed day or however you wish to do so. But always be kind in your words and deeds. And don't be discouraged and give up. The powers that be do not want up to use our rights. And only by showing the fence riders that we are good kind people will they ever see us as normal. Never be afraid to answer questions. If they want to know if it is legal inform them of it. If they want to know how can they do it let them know. Keep up the good work and make it normal for people.
    Good and accurate post, but very hard to follow because of a lack of "paragraphs".

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    Regular Member kinggabby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    Good and accurate post, but very hard to follow because of a lack of "paragraphs".
    Sorry the study of the English language and punctuation were never my best studies. So we are lucky I spelled most words correctly. Plus it never helps when you have a cat get in way of your keyboard as you type. LoL

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    heb sign requirements?

    Quote Originally Posted by qednick View Post
    Ian, was this is the Austin area? I haven't really seen any in San Antonio except H.E.B. and the other well known 30.07 posters.
    Does HEB have an exemption for not using contrasting colors and having the sign clearly visible? The one I was in has the signs low to the right where you cant read it with the doors open, no contrasting colors and usually trash cans or products partially obscuring the sign. If I only had somewhere else to shop. If a store is going to post it they should have the GUTS to put it at eye level and visible for all to see

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    squint

    Quote Originally Posted by jordanmills View Post
    I haven't seen a 30.07 sign yet.
    squint and look low right at HEB. Liberal cowards don't have the guts to put it up for all to see

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    Regular Member qednick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nothertexan View Post
    Does HEB have an exemption for not using contrasting colors and having the sign clearly visible? The one I was in has the signs low to the right where you cant read it with the doors open, no contrasting colors and usually trash cans or products partially obscuring the sign. If I only had somewhere else to shop. If a store is going to post it they should have the GUTS to put it at eye level and visible for all to see
    Their signage is terrible but the fact that it's there should be enough to make OC'ers think twice about entering. I would imagine, should you enter OC'ing, it would be to your defense that the signs are barely noticeable, provided you leave as soon as you're asked to. If you're actually cited, it would certainly be a defense because the signs are not conspicuous.

    Read a news article online this morning about the number of phone calls TX LE have received about OC so far since Jan 1st. Only case cited was one call where someone had called 911 from within an H.E.B. due to seeing an OC'er. Apparently, the OC'er left without incident.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nothertexan View Post
    Does HEB have an exemption for not using contrasting colors and having the sign clearly visible? The one I was in has the signs low to the right where you cant read it with the doors open, no contrasting colors and usually trash cans or products partially obscuring the sign. If I only had somewhere else to shop. If a store is going to post it they should have the GUTS to put it at eye level and visible for all to see
    Here's some good signage information. Pictures at the site

    http://www.gunwatch.blogspot.com/201...quired-to.html

    When Texas passed the shall issue concealed carry law in 1995, part of the deal concerned how people would be notified that a business did not allow concealed carry on the premises. A compromise was worked out that an entity that chose not to allow concealed carry on its premises was required to post a sign on all entrances, clearly showing people entering, that concealed carry was not allowed. The sign had to be large and highly visible, in both English and Spanish. The letters had to be at least one inch tall. An example of the "30.06" sign is shown below. 30.06 comes from the statute that requires the sign. It takes up about one half of a door space.
    Personal Defensive Solutions professional personal firearms, edge weapons and hands on defensive training and tactics pdsolutions@hotmail.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by nothertexan View Post
    squint and look low right at HEB. Liberal cowards don't have the guts to put it up for all to see
    Very true they want it both ways. they want to say to the anti's please come and buy . They want the gun people to come also
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    Quote Originally Posted by qednick View Post
    Their signage is terrible but the fact that it's there should be enough to make OC'ers think twice about entering. I would imagine, should you enter OC'ing, it would be to your defense that the signs are barely noticeable, provided you leave as soon as you're asked to. If you're actually cited, it would certainly be a defense because the signs are not conspicuous.

    Read a news article online this morning about the number of phone calls TX LE have received about OC so far since Jan 1st. Only case cited was one call where someone had called 911 from within an H.E.B. due to seeing an OC'er. Apparently, the OC'er left without incident.
    or simply apologize back out the door and untuck my shirt voila! concealed. carry on, thank you. this is just to demonstrate how stupid the fears of OC are. The guns are there, does not seeing them make them go away? I guess if you don't look under the bed you don't see the dust bunnies so they don't exist.

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    Regular Member qednick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nothertexan View Post
    or simply apologize back out the door and untuck my shirt voila! concealed. carry on, thank you. this is just to demonstrate how stupid the fears of OC are. The guns are there, does not seeing them make them go away? I guess if you don't look under the bed you don't see the dust bunnies so they don't exist.
    Yup! Out of sight, out of mind. Saves the bed wetters money on diapers.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qednick View Post
    Yup! Out of sight, out of mind. Saves the bed wetters money on diapers.
    With or w/o diapers, they may still soil themselves.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nothertexan View Post
    or simply apologize back out the door and untuck my shirt voila! concealed. carry on, thank you...
    Specifically to a different store, to spend your hard-earned money.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member HPmatt's Avatar
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    I am getting on MDA list here in Dallas, talked to a Houston lady tonight about meeting - told her I was very interested in not allowing criminals to have guns.


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    Regular Member HPmatt's Avatar
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    Looks like Moms for Criminals are gonna have a meet June 2nd here in Dallas - 2 weeks away. Looks t/b part of a national deal for publicity, tied in w NY Sen. Chuck Schumer call for additional gun control measures.

    Rather than show up there and protest on their terms, I would think maybe the day before we could plan an event at a place where the 2A saved lives in Dallas. Thoughts on venue? Day prior to where a good number of folks could show?






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