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Thread: NRA solution to Herring Anti- Reciprocity is not Constitutional Carry, it is P4P!!!

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    NRA solution to Herring Anti- Reciprocity is not Constitutional Carry, it is P4P!!!

    Yes the title is correct. The NRA does not advocate for a constitutional carry solution. They will put all of their horses behind a Virginia total recognition law. Very typical P4P Law.

    Link: https://www.nraila.org/articles/2015...torney-general

    Wanna bet how this turns out?
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    (sigh) What are they thinking? (rhetorical question)
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    why on earth are you surprised on the NRA's stance...it hasn't changed whatsoever!!

    ipse
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    Regular Member AtackDuck's Avatar
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    Business as usual

    I wonder how the NRA will screw VA this time. What are they willing to compromise (capitulate) this time?

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    Yes the title is correct. The NRA does not advocate for a constitutional carry solution. They will put all of their horses behind a Virginia total recognition law. Very typical P4P Law.

    Link: https://www.nraila.org/articles/2015...torney-general

    Wanna bet how this turns out?
    IMHO, this is quite the overreaction, and in all likelihood, violates Forum Rule #12.

    Herring's action suspended the reciprocity or recognition of 25 states' concealed carry permits. The NRA-backed legislation directly addresses exactly that. If you want to fight for Constitutional Carry, great, have at it. But don't come here whining about the NRA trying to correct a problem with legislation that corrects the problem!

    How is it going to turn out? I think we all know that the best we can expect this year is a big fat VETO from the Governor. But that just sets the stage for an easier fight two years from now, assuming the GOP Establishment doesn't abandon the pro-gun candidate for Governor. Again.

    TFred

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    why on earth are you surprised on the NRA's stance...it hasn't changed whatsoever!!

    ipse
    They want their NRA safety course $$$.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AtackDuck View Post
    I wonder how the NRA will screw VA this time. What are they willing to compromise (capitulate) this time?
    Depends on what the RPV tells them they want.

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    Activist Member Wolf_shadow's Avatar
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    While I would love to see Virginia go to constitutional carry, and will continue to work for it. That does not fix the problem of me now not being able to carry when I go to SC, PA, Fla, etc. to visit family and friends. While states like Fla and Tex are going to open carry you still have to have a permit they recognize to open carry! So for now I see reciprocity a necessity!

    Yes in a utopic world all states would go to constitutional carry, let me know when you see places like NY and Ill going to constitutional carry!
    Last edited by Wolf_shadow; 01-05-2016 at 10:22 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf_shadow View Post
    While I would love to see Virginia go to constitutional carry, and will continue to work for it. That does not fix the problem of me now not being able to carry when I go to SC, PA, Fla, etc. to visit family and friends. While states like Fla and Tex are going to open carry you still have to have a permit they recognize to open carry! So for now I see reciprocity a necessity!

    Yes in a utopic world all states would go to constitutional carry, let me know when you see places like NY and Ill going to constitutional carry!
    Bingo. The NRA and other advocacy groups are attempting to fix a current, immediate issue that has definite effects outside the borders of Virginia. Even with constitutional concealed carry, there is no mechanism to ensure some means of firearms carry in more restrictive states without legislation that may authorize and require reciprocity agreements. These can be added, but it is not solely a part of constitutional concealed carry.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf_shadow View Post
    While I would love to see Virginia go to constitutional carry, and will continue to work for it. That does not fix the problem of me now not being able to carry when I go to SC, PA, Fla, etc. to visit family and friends. While states like Fla and Tex are going to open carry you still have to have a permit they recognize to open carry! So for now I see reciprocity a necessity!

    Yes in a utopic world all states would go to constitutional carry, let me know when you see places like NY and Ill going to constitutional carry!
    With constitutional carry permits from are states WILL be honored, and that is what is causing the problems for VA residents, not carrying within VA. Arizona issues permits, but since it is constitutional carry it auto recognizes all states permits. Because they are not needed. I would imagine VA would be the same.

    The big problem nationwide is that OC is not recognized by some states as a right. When/if the courts step up permits will not be needed to OC nationwide. My understanding is that PR courts have already taken this step. These decisions need to be either solid decisions, or changing the state constitutions. Politicians, as seen, cannot be trusted. So any law that is claimed as a victory is a weak victory, because they can change it on a whim. Even if you constitutional carry by your legislature it can be taken away easily. Government should have no power to legislate rights.

    We have been playing this ball game in the legislative field, and it will cost our coming generations rights, and not for the good. I have no doubt that winds will shift, and just like Obama Care once the damage is done it is likely to be permanent. It is time to stop urinating money where it is no permanent solution.

    Gays did not get their rights upheld by spending money, buying politicians, they got it by activism. The Vietnam war was not cut short by throwing money at it, activism brought it to an end. Time we wake up, and get to the streets. We as a whole are much more powerful without any organization as the anti war hippies proved.

    We need a culture, not politicians, not lobby orgs. Both are in it for the money, and could not care less about our rights. If we want rights we have to fight for them.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 01-05-2016 at 11:33 AM.
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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    IMHO, this is quite the overreaction, and in all likelihood, violates Forum Rule #12.

    Herring's action suspended the reciprocity or recognition of 25 states' concealed carry permits. The NRA-backed legislation directly addresses exactly that. If you want to fight for Constitutional Carry, great, have at it. But don't come here whining about the NRA trying to correct a problem with legislation that corrects the problem!

    How is it going to turn out? I think we all know that the best we can expect this year is a big fat VETO from the Governor. But that just sets the stage for an easier fight two years from now, assuming the GOP Establishment doesn't abandon the pro-gun candidate for Governor. Again.

    TFred
    You are absolutely wrong TFred, this thread does not violate Forum Rule 12, and here is why:

    1) Stating exactly what the NRA is doing is not bashing

    2) Even if it were bashing, the NRA is harming Virginia Open Carry by advocating for a P4P solution instead of a Constitutional Carry Solution.

    For open carriers what happens if your Virginia Tuck fails and a cop sees you while your sidearm is accidentally covered? Under Constitutional Carry, no legal jeopardy as both concealed and open carry are legal without a permit. Under the NRA mandatory recognition there is legal jeopardy as only concealed carry permitees have available the exception to the class 1 misdemeanor.


    Note that I have put in bold the anti- OC clause in the rule: (12) NO BASHING OF OTHER GUN RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS: Regardless of how convinced you are that another gun rights organization is not doing their job, this is not the place to air those concerns unless they are specifically related to an anti-open carry position taken by that organization. All other rants against other gun rights groups will be deleted or the thread locked.

    The NRA is seeking a P4P solution to this problem to the detriment of Virginians that open carry. We should advocate for Open Carriers and Constitutional Carry.

    Live Free or Die,
    Thundar
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  12. #12
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    IMHO, this is quite the overreaction, and in all likelihood, violates Forum Rule #12.

    Herring's action suspended the reciprocity or recognition of 25 states' concealed carry permits. The NRA-backed legislation directly addresses exactly that. If you want to fight for Constitutional Carry, great, have at it. But don't come here whining about the NRA trying to correct a problem with legislation that corrects the problem!

    How is it going to turn out? I think we all know that the best we can expect this year is a big fat VETO from the Governor. But that just sets the stage for an easier fight two years from now, assuming the GOP Establishment doesn't abandon the pro-gun candidate for Governor. Again.

    TFred
    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    You are absolutely wrong TFred, this thread does not violate Forum Rule 12, and here is why:

    1) Stating exactly what the NRA is doing is not bashing

    2) Even if it were bashing, the NRA is harming Virginia Open Carry by advocating for a P4P solution instead of a Constitutional Carry Solution.

    For open carriers what happens if your Virginia Tuck fails and a cop sees you while your sidearm is accidentally covered? Under Constitutional Carry, no legal jeopardy as both concealed and open carry are legal without a permit. Under the NRA mandatory recognition there is legal jeopardy as only concealed carry permitees have available the exception to the class 1 misdemeanor.


    Note that I have put in bold the anti- OC clause in the rule: (12) NO BASHING OF OTHER GUN RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS: Regardless of how convinced you are that another gun rights organization is not doing their job, this is not the place to air those concerns unless they are specifically related to an anti-open carry position taken by that organization. All other rants against other gun rights groups will be deleted or the thread locked.

    The NRA is seeking a P4P solution to this problem to the detriment of Virginians that open carry. We should advocate for Open Carriers and Constitutional Carry.

    Live Free or Die,
    Thundar
    Clearly and specifically it is a violation of rule #12 - the NRA does not by design or intent discourage or campaign against open carry of holstered handguns. They have evolved and are much improved on this subject over earlier years.

    "Despite differences over tactics, said Chris Cox, the NRA's chief lobbyist, "the National Rifle Association supports open carry…unequivocally."
    https://reason.com/blog/2014/06/17/w...sed-open-carry
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