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Thread: New gun rules won’t make it easier to bring charges, former ATF agents say

  1. #1
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    New gun rules won’t make it easier to bring charges, former ATF agents say

    The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives plans to crack down on gun dealers who are not registered as federal firearms licensees, ... But former ATF agents say the regulations remain too vague to be a help to investigators, who already face a tough time prosecuting individuals who only sell a small number of guns.

    “The typical unlicensed dealer is a middle-aged or older white male with no criminal record and taking those kind of people before a jury, you’ve got to bend over backwards to show that you gave them an out,” said William J. Vizzard, a former Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives agent and retired criminal justice professor. [ ... ] Mr. Vizzard said requiring a specific number of firearms to be sold in order to require a federal license would make the system both understandable to ordinary gun owners and provide law enforcement with clear direction.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ex-atf-agents/
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    I don't see any "new rules" regarding who sells what to whom and how. Same song and dance - slightly different costume.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Clear rules such as a set number of buy/sells within a given time frame would create a safe harbor making it very difficult to prosecute from one-time stings.

    Under current rules an undercover agent can sell you a gun at a gun show at 10% below market value. Thirty minutes later another agent notices your new gun and offers 10% over market value. If you bite on the quick and easy profit, they can demonstrate you bought and sold for profit....but probably not a big enough profit to constitute entrapment. That single event may be sufficient for a conviction, or at least to bring nasty charges from which a plea deal is your best out.

    I believe the song and dance about sellers is a diversion to what Obama really wants. See the other thread about the full list for my more verbose thoughts on the range of his proposals.

    Charles
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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Obama is one shrewd cookie. Gun guys thinks he is an idiot. He does not care what gun guys think. He does not care that there are more guns being sold. He is selling his legacy to the progressive gullible. He knows and the ATF knows the law is set in stone by court precedent.
    An FFL may not sell a handgun to anyone under the age of 21, or a long gun to anyone under the age of 18. Since 1994, the Brady Act has required FFLs to conduct background checks to determine whether a purchaser is prohibited. FFLs are required to maintain records of the acquisition and disposition of firearms, report multiple handgun sales, report lost or stolen firearms to ATF, and provide transaction records for firearms traces initiated by law enforcement.

    Federal law does not require all sellers of guns to obtain a Federal firearms license. In fact, the GCA specifically provides that a person who makes “occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms” is not required to obtain a firearms license 18 U.S.C. § 922 (a) (21) (c). Unlicensed sellers are prohibited from knowingly selling a firearm to a person prohibited by law from possessing a firearm. However, they are not required to conduct Brady background checks to determine if their buyer is a prohibited person, nor are they required to maintain records that permit the firearm to be traced if it is recovered by law enforcement officials in connection with a crime.
    https://www.atf.gov/file/11881/download

    As I pointed out earlier.
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...on-gun-sellers
    Last edited by color of law; 01-05-2016 at 09:37 PM.

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    Regular Member DeSchaine's Avatar
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    Here's the supposedly easy explanation of the rules. What a joke.

    https://www.atf.gov/file/100871/download
    Guard with jealous attention the public liberty.
    Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel.
    Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force.
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  6. #6
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeSchaine View Post
    Here's the supposedly easy explanation of the rules. What a joke.

    https://www.atf.gov/file/100871/download
    "The guidance set forth herein has no regulatory effect and is not intended to create or confer any rights, privileges, or benefits in any matter, case, or proceeding, see United States v. Caceres, 440 U.S. 741 (1979)."
    https://www.atf.gov/file/100871/download
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  7. #7
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives plans to crack down on gun dealers who are not registered as federal firearms licensees, ... But former ATF agents say the regulations remain too vague to be a help to investigators, who already face a tough time prosecuting individuals who only sell a small number of guns.

    “The typical unlicensed dealer is a middle-aged or older white male with no criminal record and taking those kind of people before a jury, you’ve got to bend over backwards to show that you gave them an out,” said William J. Vizzard, a former Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives agent and retired criminal justice professor. [ ... ] Mr. Vizzard said requiring a specific number of firearms to be sold in order to require a federal license would make the system both understandable to ordinary gun owners and provide law enforcement with clear direction.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ex-atf-agents/
    I'll wager Mr. William J. Vizzard, a former Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives agent, tried his darndest to nab "a middle-aged or older white male with no criminal record."
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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