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Thread: Plano Apartment Restricts Concealed and Open

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    Plano Apartment Restricts Concealed and Open

    Woke up this morning to find a lease addendum on my front door demanding a signature agreeing that open and concealed carry is only permitted from my apartment to my car, and nowhere else on property. The addendum threatens criminal trespassing charges, even.

    There is no 30.06 signage either.




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    Ignore it. All of it.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    gage, welcome to the OC forum...

    first i'm not an attorney...but when and where are you going to move to?

    ipse
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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Assuming they can actually do this with the terms of the lease, I'd just carry concealed. Then move when it's up.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    lol... you have to acknowledge that they cannot guarantee a gun free zone or people's safety... they are basically saying that "gun free zone" is safe... what idiots.

    You'd need to check with an attorney, but they'll probably try to force you to sign this by lying about you needing to. I'd decline. Whenever your lease comes up to renew, you won't have that choice anymore, so eventually you'll have to move... but really.. I'm glad I'm no longer a renter, buying a house is the best thing you can do.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Agree that we need to know the terms and length of the existing lease.

    There are several logical flaws with their letter. First, how do "the new Open Carry Laws" have anything to do with carrying concealed firearms previous or in the future? All it did was make them think about how they've not controlled this aspect of your life yet, and how could they have missed it. Sad people they are.

    Second, how can they claim: "you will not be able to ... carry ... a handgun in any common areas?" I think they need a lawyer themselves on how to prepare lease terms and what their limits are in practical physics.

    Third, they may now have researched Texas laws. You need to do so. They may not have the right to restrict the lawful wearing of arms from registered tenants.

    I'm going to ignore the whole "just conceal anyway" debate. It's not the point. It's what rapists and murderers do, and it sickens me that your landlords don't care.

    Get prepared. Do some research. Get the crime statistics for your neighborhood. Bury them in a debate. How well do you know your neighbors? How many are affected by this policy? Who was responsible for the policy? Is it someone that has the same power at other properties?
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    mac702, et al., the letter prob has absolutely nothing to do with any type of firearm activity per se, but rather is a ruse w/a hidden agenda as a reason to get folk to vacate (when lease is up or sooner) so they can raise leases to market level, tho seems already pricey to this humble southern hick...

    bottom line OP, you smile & sign, or move either immediately or upon your lease expiration or spend $$$ for an attorney who will in all probability tell you to smile and sign or tell you to move either immediately or upon your lease expiration.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Lol. That's exactly what you should tell them, "lol".

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    Regular Member qednick's Avatar
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    Gage welcome to the forum! I seem to recall hearing about similar issue(s) and resulting lawsuit(s) in other states. Now IANAL but I'm really not sure they can do this or make you sign. You might want to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office about them trying to change the lease terms on you. As a tenant you have the right to peaceably enjoy the apartment, grounds and facilities for which you have paid under your lease.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qednick View Post
    Gage welcome to the forum! I seem to recall hearing about similar issue(s) and resulting lawsuit(s) in other states. Now IANAL but I'm really not sure they can do this or make you sign. You might want to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office about them trying to change the lease terms on you. As a tenant you have the right to peaceably enjoy the apartment, grounds and facilities for which you have paid under your lease.
    Lease terms may not be changed during the term except by mutual consent - sign nothing.

    Historically the AG is the state's attorney - he/she does not give legal advice or interpretations of law to commoners, only to governmental agencies and officials.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    SNIP Agree that we need to know the terms and length of the existing lease.
    I was the victim of such a tactic by a large property manager on two occasions. Not about guns, but other stuff.

    On one occasion, they sent a letter saying they were requiring all residents to re-sign their leases instead of converting to month-to-month at the end of the lease. My thought: "Uh...no. All you can do is cancel the month-to-month lease. You cannot require me to sign a new one."


    On another occasion, they demanded mid-lease that all residents obtain renter's insurance. Of course, in the body of the letter was the little requirement that the renter name the property owner as an additional insured. My thought: "Uh...no. In fact, the already signed lease expressly said renter's insurance was not required but was strongly recommended. So, where do you get the idea you can unilaterally change the terms of a lease (contract)?"

    I ignored them both times. On the first issue, they quit trying. On the second, they kept sending out the renter's insurance demand. I kept ignoring them. Until they actually threatened to not extend the lease for another year. Then I bought renters insurance, but only when they finally exercised a right they actually possessed.

    I would never have believed a professional property management company would try such tactics. Then I saw it with my own eyes.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

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    Regular Member qednick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Lease terms may not be changed during the term except by mutual consent - sign nothing.

    Historically the AG is the state's attorney - he/she does not give legal advice or interpretations of law to commoners, only to governmental agencies and officials.
    True. But the TX AG will take complaints regarding landlord/tenant issues and will contact the LL. They just won't file a lawsuit on your behalf.

    Another free option is to file a complaint with the BBB about them wanting to unilaterally change the terms of the lease.

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    Quote Originally Posted by qednick View Post
    True. But the TX AG will take complaints regarding landlord/tenant issues and will contact the LL. They just won't file a lawsuit on your behalf.

    Another free option is to file a complaint with the BBB about them wanting to unilaterally change the terms of the lease.
    One may be able to contact the legislature for an explanation of a law. Most have research branches that will take legislator's questions regarding laws and give their opinion ~ their opinion is worth as much as an AG's.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    --snipped--
    On one occasion, they sent a letter saying they were requiring all residents to re-sign their leases instead of converting to month-to-month at the end of the lease. My thought: "Uh...no. All you can do is cancel the month-to-month lease. You cannot require me to sign a new one."
    Actually yes they can if they have given proper notice of non renewal of existing terms and conditions. Either one signs/accepts or vacates - doing neither puts one in the category of being a Tenant at Sufferance....and you would be subject to all expenses to recover said property.

    "A tenant at sufferance is a person who has been in lawful possession of property but who wrongfully remains as a holdover after his right to possession has expired. See ICM Mortgage, 902 S.W.2d at 530; Black's Law Dictionary 1604 (9th ed. 2009)"
    http://causeofactionelements.blogspo...r-tenants.html
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qednick View Post
    True. But the TX AG will take complaints regarding landlord/tenant issues and will contact the LL. They just won't file a lawsuit on your behalf.

    Another free option is to file a complaint with the BBB about them wanting to unilaterally change the terms of the lease.
    Cite please.

    Contacting the LL would still be acting as your agent IMO.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member qednick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Cite please.

    Contacting the LL would still be acting as your agent IMO.
    Here's the online complaint form:
    https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/forms/cpd/form.php

    Here's the downloadable printed complaint form:
    https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov...plaintform.pdf

    The latter specifically says they may send a copy to the business. Like I said, they won't take action on your behalf, but the complaint becomes public record and no business wants that. If enough people make the same complaint, the AG's office may take legal action for the good of the public--you just may not end up being compensated.

    It may not be the same as hiring a lawyer to file suit to settle a specific grievance. I simply suggested filing with the AG and BBB as quick and free ways to assert one's consumer/tenant rights.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qednick View Post
    Here's the online complaint form:
    https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/forms/cpd/form.php

    Here's the downloadable printed complaint form:
    https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov...plaintform.pdf

    The latter specifically says they may send a copy to the business. Like I said, they won't take action on your behalf, but the complaint becomes public record and no business wants that. If enough people make the same complaint, the AG's office may take legal action for the good of the public--you just may not end up being compensated.

    It may not be the same as hiring a lawyer to file suit to settle a specific grievance. I simply suggested filing with the AG and BBB as quick and free ways to assert one's consumer/tenant rights.
    I like that - it is proactive consumer protection. At the least, it has the potential for being so.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    You don't ask a question, but I am going to answer as if you did ask a question.

    Get a lawyer. Period. Nobody on this forum is going to be accompanying you to or representing you in court. You need to find a reputable lawyer that can represent you and your best interest, and seek advice from them.
    Advocate freedom please

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    They cannot make you read it or sign it, they also cannot do anything (except not renew) if you don't.

    What they should have done is just post the 30.07 signs. Which in no way would have any impact your use of the common property (Concealed was and is still OK), then they should just wait and add the 30.06 signs after all existing leases expire) and put both the 30/.06 & 30.07 language in the new leases therefore avoiding any potential lawsuits for restricting your use of the common areas while armed.

    Of course this all depends on their authority to do any of this under the laws of Texas.


    ETA: Now that I think about it, the signs are going to be problematic. According to the law, they must contain specific verbiage. So I don't see any way to include/exclude certain portions of the property. The leasing office, maybe, but the common areas...I'm not so sure. If they put a sign up at the entrance, one would assume they mean to include the entire property, including inside the apartments - something I don't think they can do.

    Time to find a good landlord/tenant attorney.

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    Regular Member qednick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    I like that - it is proactive consumer protection. At the least, it has the potential for being so.
    I probably should've said "may contact the LL". Alas, I was going from memory after filling out one of these forms a while back with my own LL complaint.

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    The form is a lease addendum, it adds to the existing lease agreement. You do not have to agree to the terms and thus you do not have to sign it at this time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by qednick View Post
    I probably should've said "may contact the LL". Alas, I was going from memory after filling out one of these forms a while back with my own LL complaint.
    If you wanted to contact the LL/owner ... do so with your newly written lease for them to sign indicating that guns will be provided by the LL and can be worn anywhere in any manner at their facility.

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    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    Property management authority ( whoever that may be ) has sided with the point of view that people should not have to be exposed to other people exercising their constitutionally guaranteed rights.

    This too...shall pass.

    I've shared this before I know...but ...I think it will help us deal with some of this nonsensical hysteria regarding lawful open carry in Texas.

    One of the delegates to the 1845 Texas Constitution Convention also took exception to open carry - actually he took exception to ANY CARRY. No.... his name wasn't Bloomberg. His name was Oglethree...I believe.

    Anyway...he contended during discussions regarding the wording of protections for the right to keep and bear arms...that

    " In a civilized society no man should have to go armed against his fellow citizens".

    The response by other delegates went something like this:

    "In a civilized society no man should be bound to stand defenseless in the face of an assassin either."

    Anyway...the Texas Legislature has now formally exercised its constitutional power " to regulate the wearing of arms".

    As of January 1, 2016 it is now LAWFUL for a duly licensed citizen to WEAR a belt or shoulder holstered handgun openly or concealed. THAT is now the LAW in Texas....and just like the Disarmament Act of 1871...folks are just going to have to adapt to it.
    Last edited by rushcreek2; 01-07-2016 at 05:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Actually yes they can if they have given proper notice of non renewal of existing terms and conditions. Either one signs/accepts or vacates - doing neither puts one in the category of being a Tenant at Sufferance....and you would be subject to all expenses to recover said property.

    "A tenant at sufferance is a person who has been in lawful possession of property but who wrongfully remains as a holdover after his right to possession has expired. See ICM Mortgage, 902 S.W.2d at 530; Black's Law Dictionary 1604 (9th ed. 2009)"
    http://causeofactionelements.blogspo...r-tenants.html
    Uh, you did notice the omission of that information in my post, right? And, um, you did notice that I wrote my thought about all they can do is cancel, i.e. "non-renewal", the month-to-month offer, right?

    For general readers, the landlord never followed up with me, never cancelled the month-to-month. It was simply a sales tactic to try to scare month-to-month people into locking in for twelve months.

    For the OPer, also consider what is missing from the letter--the way these sorts of companies discuss things they do have a legal right to do. Threats. Any letter I've ever gotten from a large-property landlord or management company included some threat about failure to comply. Fail to keep your balcony clean--threat of $50 fine added to your account. Fail to put your trash in the dumpster instead of beside it--$50 fine added to your account. My point is there is always a threat and a penalty expressly written in the text of the letter by one of these large-company landlords or management companies if they're exercising a legal right.

    Bearing in mind that I have not read every post or followed every offered link, my guess is the most the OPer's landlord can do is create a "rule" for use of the property. Distinctly different from having legal authority to require the OPer to sign a lease-addendum mid-lease. And, especially require the OPer to waive a right and assume risk in the middle of a lease. I think this is just a tactic to get uninformed people who don't know their contract rights to sign an addendum. I think the OPer should definitely look into the legal angles in his state.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 01-07-2016 at 08:48 PM. Reason: rule #19 in quote
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member HPmatt's Avatar
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    Plano Apartment Restricts Concealed and Open

    I noticed the Addendum is a TAA form - Texas Apt Assn - that is the legal/lobby group that represents a large % of small most multifamily apartment owners in Texas. Would expect to see that cropping up all over the place.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by HPmatt; 01-07-2016 at 07:28 PM.
    “Men live without other security than what their own strength and their own invention shall furnish them"
    -Thomas Hobbes 1651

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