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Thread: Cruz is not elegilble for president

  1. #1
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    Cruz is not elegilble for president

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...h-certificate/

    Born in another country.

    By Cruz's own logic, he is a Cuban natural born citizen, right?
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 01-08-2016 at 11:33 PM.

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    Regular Member redhawk44's Avatar
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    travel.state.gov > Legal Considerations > U.S. Citizenship Laws & Policy > Acquisition of U.S. Citizenship by a Child Born Abroad

    Acquisition of U.S. Citizenship by a Child Born Abroad
    Birth Abroad to Two U.S. Citizen Parents in Wedlock

    A child born abroad to two U.S. citizen parents acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under section 301(c) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) provided that one of the parents had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions prior to the child’s birth. The child is considered to be born in wedlock for the purposes of citizenship acquisition when the genetic and/or gestational parents are legally married to each other at the time of the child’s birth and both parents are the legal parents of the child under local law at the time and place of birth.
    Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock
    __________________________________________________ ________________________________

    Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock

    A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) of the INA provided the U.S. citizen parent was physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child's birth. (For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen, is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen, is required for physical presence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.) The U.S. citizen parent must be the genetic or the gestational parent and the legal parent of the child under local law at the time and place of the child’s birth to transmit U.S. citizenship.
    END

    In my, and others opinion, a Natural Born Citizen is a person born of two parents who are citizens, however, this has not been settled in the judiciary as the courts have not allowed/recognized "standing".

    Cruz is a "Citizen", as it appears at least his his mother met the requirements above, but was his father a US citizen at the time of Ted's birth? The question arises again as to whether there is a difference between a Citizen and a "Natural Born Citizen".

    If Barack Obama was born in Hawaii, he is at least a Citizen, but is he a Natural Born Citizen? IF, he was born outside the country, his mother was not qualified to convey US citizenship at the time of his birth under "For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen, is required for physical presence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child."; as, she was born Nov. 29, 1942, and five years after age fourteen would be Nov. 29, 1961. Barack Hussein Obama was born Aug. 4, 1961. His father was not a US citizen, he was a British subject in 1961. IF Barack Obama was born in Kenya to his British father and his unqualified US citizen mother, Barack Hussein Obama is a British citizen.

    http://travel.state.gov/content/trav...rn-abroad.html
    Last edited by redhawk44; 01-09-2016 at 02:38 PM. Reason: reference

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    redhawk44, you have 27 posts in 7 years. Man, you need to slow it down a notch.

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    Regular Member redhawk44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    redhawk44, you have 27 posts in 7 years. Man, you need to slow it down a notch.
    I have been married 47 years to the same woman, I know when to keep my mouth shut.

  5. #5
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redhawk44 View Post
    I have been married 47 years to the same woman, I know when to keep my mouth shut.
    40 years to the same woman for me. I don't always take my own advise. My dog house is nicely furnished.

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    I learned long ago to say Yes Dear when appropriate. My house is nicely furnished and I keep it strictly clean. Look to the etymology of husband.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 01-09-2016 at 03:49 PM.
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    This is not France ... to be naturalized you have to be born on US soil. Why else did/does the military transport American servicemen's wifes back to the US to be born on US soil?

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    This is not France ... to be naturalized you have to be born on US soil. Why else did/does the military transport American servicemen's wifes back to the US to be born on US soil?
    Cradle robbers!
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    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    In view of the national disgrace of a 2 term President Barack Obama who apparently no one really can substantiate where he was actually born or even who his parents REALLY WERE.....I will PROUDLY cast my vote in Colorado for Ted Cruz to be the next President of the United States ...if he is the GOP nominee......even though he is not a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN of the United States.

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    Birthers don't understand irony due too the same condition that make them birthers. It's not a choice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    Birthers don't understand irony due too the same condition that make them birthers. It's not a choice.
    I think it is a choice.

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    Hebe 1 2?
    Last edited by Nightmare; 01-09-2016 at 08:45 PM.
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    We just celebrated 36 years of happy marriage. 30 for her, 6 for me. The first six!

    My doghouse is a 29-foot motor home. Flat screen, surround sound, heat, a/c, fridge. No problem!

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    Quote Originally Posted by hafnhaf View Post
    We just celebrated 36 years of happy marriage. 30 for her, 6 for me. The first six!

    My doghouse is a 29-foot motor home. Flat screen, surround sound, heat, a/c, fridge. No problem!
    Luckily your license is only good in one state !

    Nice doghouse ...

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    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...12d_story.html


    Short analysis ... correct conclusion - Cruz not eligible

    I think he's Cuban.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 01-12-2016 at 04:36 PM.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    This is not France ... to be naturalized you have to be born on US soil. Why else did/does the military transport American servicemen's wifes back to the US to be born on US soil?
    I dunno, but I'm fairly sure the military did NOT transport my wife back to the continental USA in order for her to be born on US soil. If I recall, her birth preceded that by twenty-some odd years.


    Let me be clear: I am not a so-called birther. I am a legal historian. President Obama is without question eligible for the office he serves. The distinction between the president and Cruz is simple: The president was born within the United States, and the senator was born outside of it. That is a distinction with a difference.
    Yeah.... that right there
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 01-12-2016 at 05:41 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    This is not France ... to be naturalized you have to be born on US soil. Why else did/does the military transport American servicemen's wifes back to the US to be born on US soil?
    Forum rules would dictate you cite to authority on both accounts, having to be born here regardless of parental citizenship and on the military policy to transport wives back. Doubt you can find either, let alone both.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STLDaniel View Post
    Forum rules would dictate you cite to authority on both accounts, having to be born here regardless of parental citizenship and on the military policy to transport wives back. Doubt you can find either, let alone both.
    That rule is not mandatory and I assume that everyone here has read the constitution and have knowledge of the military shipping wifes back to give birth.

    Google is your friend ... and the links I have provided show the constitutional issue. Hence, incorporated into the post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    ...I assume that everyone here has ... knowledge of the military shipping wives back to give birth...
    I'm a third generation veteran. I'd never heard of it.
    Last edited by MAC702; 01-12-2016 at 10:02 PM.
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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Here as well, although I'm the first ground-pounder in a long line of swabbies. The only time I've heard of it happening lately was in a movie with Cary Grant, "I was a Male War Bride", I think. It is the story of French Army officer Henri Rochard (Grant) who must pass as a war bride in order to go back to the United States with Women's Army Corps officer Catherine Gates (Sheridan). The film is noted as being a low key screwball comedy with a famous final sequence featuring Cary Grant impersonating a female Army nurse.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 01-12-2016 at 11:10 PM.

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    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    I was Infantry for 6 years. My father was MI for 25 years. My Grandfather was Air Force for 35 years. My other grandfather was navy for 5. That's immediate family. Doesn't count all my relatives that have been in the military.
    I've never heard of any branch flying somebody's wife home to give birth. My sister was born in Stuttgart where we lived for three years when I was a kid.
    "Loyalty above all else except honor. " -John Mahoney

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  22. #22
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    That rule is not mandatory ...
    You, Sir, are a ingrate...google is indeed your friend.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    This is not France ... to be naturalized you have to be born on US soil.
    Nope. Natural born means to be a citizen from birth. Prior to the 13th and 14th amendments, even many who were born here were not considered "natural born citizens". And one reading of the 14th amendment supports the view that children born to illegal aliens are not entitled to US Citizenship.

    Wiki discusses the issue in some detail.


    The use of the phrase "natural born" was not without precedent. Statutes in England prior to American independence used the phrase "natural born subject". For example, the British Foreign Protestants Naturalization Act 1708:
    The children of all natural born subjects born out of the ligeance [i.e. out of England] of Her Majesty Her Heirs and Successors shall be deemed and adjudged to be natural born subjects of this Kingdom to all intents, constructions, and purposes whatsoever.
    Another example is the Plantation Act 1740:
    [A]ll persons born out of the legience of His Majesty, His Heirs, or Successors, who have . . . or shall inhabit or reside for . . . seven years or more in any of His Majesty’s colonies in America . . . shall be deemed, adjudged, and taken to be His Majesty’s natural-born subjects of this Kingdom.
    The famed jurist William Blackstone wrote in 1765 that inhabitants born within England may be natural-born subjects: "Natural-born subjects are such as are born within the dominions of the crown of England...."[9][11] Blackstone added that offspring who are not inhabitants may also be natural born subjects:
    But by several more modern statutes ... all children, born out of the king's ligeance, whose fathers were natural-born subjects, are now natural-born subjects themselves, to all intents and purposes, without any exception; unless their said fathers were attainted, or banished beyond sea, for high treason; or were then in the service of a prince at enmity with Great Britain.
    A leading authority in England prior to Blackstone was Edward Coke, who wrote about this subject in Calvin's Case. According to Coke: "[I]f any of the King's ambassadors in foreign nations, have children there of their wives, being English women, by the common laws of England they are natural-born subjects, and yet they are born out-of the King's dominions."

    Furthermore, the issue of natural born citizens born abroad being eligible for the Presidency was pretty well resolved in 1967 during George Romney's presidential bid.


    Questions were occasionally asked about Romney's eligibility to hold the office of President due to his birth in Mexico, given the ambiguity in the United States Constitution over the phrase "natural-born citizen".[2][3] His Mormon paternal grandfather and his three wives had fled to Mexico in 1886, but none of them ever relinquished U.S. citizenship. Romney's parents chose U.S. citizenship for their children, including George.[4] The family fled Mexico and came to the United States in 1912 during the Mexican Revolution.
    By February 1967, some newspapers were questioning Romney's eligibility given his Mexican birth.[5] In May 1967, the Democratic chair of the House Judiciary Committee, Emanuel Celler, said he had "serious doubts" about whether Romney was eligible, but had no plans to formally challenge the matter.[2] Another member of Congress made a case against Romney the following month.[5] In response, the New York Law Journal published an article by a senior attorney at Sullivan & Cromwell arguing that Romney was, in fact, eligible.[5] The Congressional Research Service also came down on Romney's side,[5] as did most other constitutional experts at the time.[2]
    During the campaign, Romney was generally considered a viable and legal candidate for United States president. He departed the race before the matter could be more definitively resolved,[3] although the preponderance of opinion since then has been that he was eligible.[6]
    (Original on Wiki has footnotes with sources for material claims.)


    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Why else did/does the military transport American servicemen's wifes back to the US to be born on US soil?
    I've never heard of such a thing except where complications were expected and better medical facilities were available in the US. Indeed, a google search reveals that it is common for dependents deployed overseas with military (or diplomatic) spouses to give birth without returning to the US. See this article for a first person account. There is a reason the form FS-240, or Consular Report of a Birth Abroad, exists.

    Quite simply, you are wrong, and have failed to provide any meaningful citation to back up your position.

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    According to Ted Cruz's father's statement, Ted Cruz's parents applied for and received Canadian citizenship before his birth in Alberta. Thus, his mother committed the act of obtaining naturalization of a foreign state, a potentially expatriating act. If this is true, then Ted Cruz is a 100% natural-born citizen of Canada, being born on Canadian soil of 2 naturalized Canadian parents.
    In addition, until 1977, Canada required those seeking Canadian citizenship to swear an oath renouncing their allegiance to their previous country. This action, combined with behavior showing the person intended to relinquish his or her U.S. citizenship, has been ruled an expatriating act by U.S. courts. If Ted Cruz's mother obtained Canadian citizenship before 1977, then she swore this oath before a Canadian government official.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    According to Ted Cruz's father's statement, Ted Cruz's parents applied for and received Canadian citizenship before his birth in Alberta. Thus, his mother committed the act of obtaining naturalization of a foreign state, a potentially expatriating act. If this is true, then Ted Cruz is a 100% natural-born citizen of Canada, being born on Canadian soil of 2 naturalized Canadian parents.
    In addition, until 1977, Canada required those seeking Canadian citizenship to swear an oath renouncing their allegiance to their previous country. This action, combined with behavior showing the person intended to relinquish his or her U.S. citizenship, has been ruled an expatriating act by U.S. courts. If Ted Cruz's mother obtained Canadian citizenship before 1977, then she swore this oath before a Canadian government official.
    He's more eligible to be president of Cuba than the US....

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