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Thread: CCW Instructor told class .. It's against the law to carry where "No Guns" signs

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    CCW Instructor told class .. It's against the law to carry where "No Guns" signs

    My wife and four other family members took their CCW class yesterday, and they said the instructor said it was against the law to carry your weapon into any establishments that has a "No Guns" sticker on their door. He went on to say, That a police officer can charge you for trespassing if he/she alone saw you carrying in a business with a "No Guns" sticker on the front door. The owner or employee doesn't have to be involved and the police officer could act on their own. I find this hard to believe. My instructor said when I took my class, the signs had no meaning, and it only becomes against the law "If the employee/owner asked you to leave, and you refuse".

    My questions is... Is there something written in the Oklahoma Law book that points this matter out that I can show my wife that this isn't true? Or have I fallen behind times, and this has become law?

    Thanks.

    P.S. The instructor is a police officer.
    Last edited by Ouch; 01-10-2016 at 11:00 AM.

  2. #2
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Not true

    Quote Originally Posted by Ouch View Post
    My wife and four other family members took their CCW class yesterday, and they said the instructor said it was against the law to carry your weapon into any establishments that has a "No Guns" sticker on their door. He went on to say, That a police officer can charge you for trespassing if he/she alone saw you carrying in a business with a "No Guns" sticker on the front door. The owner or employee doesn't have to be involved and the police officer could act on their own. I find this hard to believe. My instructor said when I took my class, the signs had no meaning, and it only becomes against the law "If the employee/owner asked you to leave, and you refuse".

    My questions is... Is there something written in the Oklahoma Law book that points this matter out that I can show my wife that this isn't true? Or have I fallen behind times, and this has become law?

    Thanks.

    P.S. The instructor is a police officer.
    First and foremost a police officer is not an agent for the property. Second, LEOs are generally not responsible for their mistaken advice.

    What the Oklahoma statute actually says:
    TITLE 21 1290.22


    D. The carrying of a concealed or unconcealed firearm by a person who has been issued a handgun license on
    property that has signs prohibiting the carrying of firearms shall not be deemed a criminal act but may
    subject the person to being denied entrance onto the property or removed from the property. If the person refuses to
    leave the property and a peace officer is summoned, the person may be issued a citation
    for an amount not to
    exceed Two Hundred Fifty Dollars ($250.00)
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 01-10-2016 at 12:00 PM.
    Better to not open your mouth and be thought the fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ouch View Post
    My wife and four other family members took their CCW class yesterday, and they said the instructor said it was against the law to carry your weapon into any establishments that has a "No Guns" sticker on their door. He went on to say, That a police officer can charge you for trespassing if he/she alone saw you carrying in a business with a "No Guns" sticker on the front door. The owner or employee doesn't have to be involved and the police officer could act on their own. I find this hard to believe. My instructor said when I took my class, the signs had no meaning, and it only becomes against the law "If the employee/owner asked you to leave, and you refuse".

    My questions is... Is there something written in the Oklahoma Law book that points this matter out that I can show my wife that this isn't true? Or have I fallen behind times, and this has become law?

    Thanks.

    P.S. The instructor is a police officer.
    Well, there's your explanation.

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    Training ... LOL we train monkeys, not people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ouch View Post
    My wife and four other family members took their CCW class yesterday, and they said the instructor said it was against the law to carry your weapon into any establishments that has a "No Guns" sticker on their door.
    Some CCW instructors don't know the law or their knowledge of it is outdated. I once ran across an instructor that tried to convince me that my FL Concealed License was not valid in OK and that I needed to take his class to know the laws. He also stated that I could not open carry with my FL license and that I needed an OK one. He didn't seem to like that I quoted the state statue that proved him dead wrong.

    I understand the man was trying to run a business and get clients....but I also don't like deceptive practices. The bottomline is that it helps to read the law yourself.

    JC

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Spread the word on any instructor who is blatant in his bias against liberty. Hit him in his pocket.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    So what firearms instruction place is hiring this cop to lie to their students? Out them, and let's actually FIX this.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Believe nothing you hear, and only half of what you see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Spread the word on any instructor who is blatant in his bias against liberty. Hit him in his pocket.
    OP may be worried about a defamation suit. While the truth is a perfect defense, it would still cost $$ to defend ... if the OP is not able to act as his/her own attny.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 01-11-2016 at 03:32 PM.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Glock 1st fan's Avatar
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    One of the biggest issues of the firearms debate and laws of the land is that both sides hear part of the law then insert their opinions in to it. Then it becomes totally incorrect and a lie too.

    Even when I became an instructor there was misinformation spread by gun rights groups and orgs who are supposedly supporting gun rights. The best thing you can do is research for yourself and go with what is in the law. When you ask advice be prepared for some that can land you in hot water if you follow it.
    Last edited by Glock 1st fan; 01-19-2016 at 05:35 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    First and foremost a police officer is not an agent for the property. Second, LEOs are generally not responsible for their mistaken advice.

    What the Oklahoma statute actually says:
    TITLE 21 1290.22


    D. The carrying of a concealed or unconcealed firearm by a person who has been issued a handgun license on
    property that has signs prohibiting the carrying of firearms shall not be deemed a criminal act but may
    subject the person to being denied entrance onto the property or removed from the property. If the person refuses to
    leave the property and a peace officer is summoned, the person may be issued a citation
    for an amount not to
    exceed Two Hundred Fifty Dollars ($250.00)
    OK, I see that a person may be issued a citation in an amount not be exceed $250.00---- But for what? Violation of a statute that specifies "not be deemed a criminal act"?
    Last edited by JoeSparky; 01-20-2016 at 04:32 AM.
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  12. #12
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    OK, I see that a person may be issued a citation in an amount not be exceed $250.00---- But for what? Violation of a statute that specifies "not be deemed a criminal act"?
    Trespassing?
    Better to not open your mouth and be thought the fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  13. #13
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Does TITLE 21 1290.22 apply to cops?

    http://www.oscn.net/applications/osc...?CiteID=438588
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 01-20-2016 at 01:30 PM. Reason: fixed link
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    OK, I see that a person may be issued a citation in an amount not be exceed $250.00---- But for what? Violation of a statute that specifies "not be deemed a criminal act"?
    Yes, pretty much. It's not a crime. It's an infraction (not sure if that's a term used in Oklahoma law, but it is in many jurisdictions). It's similar to receiving a citation for a traffic violation. As I understand, this law was modeled after the idea of simple trespass, which is also not a crime (as opposed to "criminal trespass").

    What I've said above is probably not technically correct on all points. I'm no lawyer. But I'm pretty confident the gist of it is right.

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    Regular Member OldCurlyWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    OK, I see that a person may be issued a citation in an amount not be exceed $250.00---- But for what? Violation of a statute that specifies "not be deemed a criminal act"?
    If you are told to leave and refuse, THEN it becomes CRIMINAL Trespass.
    I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them.

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  16. #16
    Regular Member Glock 1st fan's Avatar
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    One of the biggest problems Oklahoma has had is instructors giving bad class information. Even for the longest time on here I had witnessed people representing orginizations for gun rights giving bad advice. I always tell people refer to the handbook itself because following other peoples advice can land you in hot water and even jail. You can look the handbook up online and read it first hand without interpretations. If you still need legal advice its best to constult a legal professional who deals with this area of law.
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    Be careful seeking advice on Forums pertaining to law. Bad advice is often given from people who do not know or understand the law. Always read the law yourself and if you do not understand seek legal advice from a qualified legal expert. Following online advice can land you in legal trouble.

  17. #17
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    There is no case law dealing with TITLE 21 1290.22(D).

    It is a civil fine of $250. No criminal involved, period.

    Many state parking infractions are civil not criminal. Ohio is for sure.

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