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Thread: CCW Instructor told class .. It's against the law to carry where "No Guns" signs

  1. #1
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    CCW Instructor told class .. It's against the law to carry where "No Guns" signs

    My wife and four other family members took their CCW class yesterday, and they said the instructor said it was against the law to carry your weapon into any establishments that has a "No Guns" sticker on their door. He went on to say, That a police officer can charge you for trespassing if he/she alone saw you carrying in a business with a "No Guns" sticker on the front door. The owner or employee doesn't have to be involved and the police officer could act on their own. I find this hard to believe. My instructor said when I took my class, the signs had no meaning, and it only becomes against the law "If the employee/owner asked you to leave, and you refuse".

    My questions is... Is there something written in the Oklahoma Law book that points this matter out that I can show my wife that this isn't true? Or have I fallen behind times, and this has become law?

    Thanks.

    P.S. The instructor is a police officer.
    Last edited by Ouch; 01-10-2016 at 12:00 PM.

  2. #2
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Not true

    Quote Originally Posted by Ouch View Post
    My wife and four other family members took their CCW class yesterday, and they said the instructor said it was against the law to carry your weapon into any establishments that has a "No Guns" sticker on their door. He went on to say, That a police officer can charge you for trespassing if he/she alone saw you carrying in a business with a "No Guns" sticker on the front door. The owner or employee doesn't have to be involved and the police officer could act on their own. I find this hard to believe. My instructor said when I took my class, the signs had no meaning, and it only becomes against the law "If the employee/owner asked you to leave, and you refuse".

    My questions is... Is there something written in the Oklahoma Law book that points this matter out that I can show my wife that this isn't true? Or have I fallen behind times, and this has become law?

    Thanks.

    P.S. The instructor is a police officer.
    First and foremost a police officer is not an agent for the property. Second, LEOs are generally not responsible for their mistaken advice.

    What the Oklahoma statute actually says:
    TITLE 21 1290.22


    D. The carrying of a concealed or unconcealed firearm by a person who has been issued a handgun license on
    property that has signs prohibiting the carrying of firearms shall not be deemed a criminal act but may
    subject the person to being denied entrance onto the property or removed from the property. If the person refuses to
    leave the property and a peace officer is summoned, the person may be issued a citation
    for an amount not to
    exceed Two Hundred Fifty Dollars ($250.00)
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 01-10-2016 at 01:00 PM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ouch View Post
    My wife and four other family members took their CCW class yesterday, and they said the instructor said it was against the law to carry your weapon into any establishments that has a "No Guns" sticker on their door. He went on to say, That a police officer can charge you for trespassing if he/she alone saw you carrying in a business with a "No Guns" sticker on the front door. The owner or employee doesn't have to be involved and the police officer could act on their own. I find this hard to believe. My instructor said when I took my class, the signs had no meaning, and it only becomes against the law "If the employee/owner asked you to leave, and you refuse".

    My questions is... Is there something written in the Oklahoma Law book that points this matter out that I can show my wife that this isn't true? Or have I fallen behind times, and this has become law?

    Thanks.

    P.S. The instructor is a police officer.
    Well, there's your explanation.

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    In Wisconsin we have this unfortunate paragraph ...

    Wisc. Stats. 175.60(21) Immunity. [ ... ] (d) A person providing a firearms training course in good faith is immune from liability arising from any act or omission related to the course if the course is one described in sub. (4) (a).

    Our local cop charges $100 per capita and teaches only the prohibitions, and those incorrectly, but not the proper allowances.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 01-10-2016 at 01:28 PM.
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    Training ... LOL we train monkeys, not people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ouch View Post
    My wife and four other family members took their CCW class yesterday, and they said the instructor said it was against the law to carry your weapon into any establishments that has a "No Guns" sticker on their door.
    Some CCW instructors don't know the law or their knowledge of it is outdated. I once ran across an instructor that tried to convince me that my FL Concealed License was not valid in OK and that I needed to take his class to know the laws. He also stated that I could not open carry with my FL license and that I needed an OK one. He didn't seem to like that I quoted the state statue that proved him dead wrong.

    I understand the man was trying to run a business and get clients....but I also don't like deceptive practices. The bottomline is that it helps to read the law yourself.

    JC

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Spread the word on any instructor who is blatant in his bias against liberty. Hit him in his pocket.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    So what firearms instruction place is hiring this cop to lie to their students? Out them, and let's actually FIX this.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Believe nothing you hear, and only half of what you see.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Spread the word on any instructor who is blatant in his bias against liberty. Hit him in his pocket.
    OP may be worried about a defamation suit. While the truth is a perfect defense, it would still cost $$ to defend ... if the OP is not able to act as his/her own attny.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 01-11-2016 at 04:32 PM.

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    Regular Member Glock 1st fan's Avatar
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    One of the biggest issues of the firearms debate and laws of the land is that both sides hear part of the law then insert their opinions in to it. Then it becomes totally incorrect and a lie too.

    Even when I became an instructor there was misinformation spread by gun rights groups and orgs who are supposedly supporting gun rights. The best thing you can do is research for yourself and go with what is in the law. When you ask advice be prepared for some that can land you in hot water if you follow it.
    Last edited by Glock 1st fan; 01-19-2016 at 06:35 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    First and foremost a police officer is not an agent for the property. Second, LEOs are generally not responsible for their mistaken advice.

    What the Oklahoma statute actually says:
    TITLE 21 1290.22


    D. The carrying of a concealed or unconcealed firearm by a person who has been issued a handgun license on
    property that has signs prohibiting the carrying of firearms shall not be deemed a criminal act but may
    subject the person to being denied entrance onto the property or removed from the property. If the person refuses to
    leave the property and a peace officer is summoned, the person may be issued a citation
    for an amount not to
    exceed Two Hundred Fifty Dollars ($250.00)
    OK, I see that a person may be issued a citation in an amount not be exceed $250.00---- But for what? Violation of a statute that specifies "not be deemed a criminal act"?
    Last edited by JoeSparky; 01-20-2016 at 05:32 AM.
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  13. #13
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    OK, I see that a person may be issued a citation in an amount not be exceed $250.00---- But for what? Violation of a statute that specifies "not be deemed a criminal act"?
    Trespassing?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  14. #14
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Does TITLE 21 1290.22 apply to cops?

    http://www.oscn.net/applications/osc...?CiteID=438588
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 01-20-2016 at 02:30 PM. Reason: fixed link
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  15. #15
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    There is no office or agent commissioned to enforce the law against the sovereign or his troops.

    21 OK Stat 21-1290.22 (2014) BUSINESS OWNER'S RIGHTS

    A. Except as provided in subsection B of this section, nothing contained in any provision of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act shall be construed to limit, restrict or prohibit in any manner the existing rights of any person, property owner, tenant, employer, place of worship or business entity to control the possession of weapons on any property owned or controlled by the person or business entity.

    B. No person, property owner, tenant, employer, place of worship or business entity shall be permitted to establish any policy or rule that has the effect of prohibiting any person, except a convicted felon, from transporting and storing firearms in a locked vehicle on any property set aside for any vehicle.

    C. A property owner, tenant, employer, place of worship or business entity may prohibit any person from carrying a concealed or unconcealed firearm on the property. If the building or property is open to the public, the property owner, tenant, employer, place of worship or business entity shall post signs on or about the property stating such prohibition.

    D. The carrying of a concealed or unconcealed firearm by a person who has been issued a handgun license on property that has signs prohibiting the carrying of firearms shall not be deemed a criminal act but may subject the person to being denied entrance onto the property or removed from the property. If the person refuses to leave the property and a peace officer is summoned, the person may be issued a citation for an amount not to exceed Two Hundred Fifty Dollars ($250.00).

    E. A person, corporation, place of worship or any other business entity that does or does not prohibit any individual except a convicted felon from carrying a loaded or unloaded, concealed or unconcealed weapon on property that the person, corporation, place of worship or other business entity owns, or has legal control of, is immune from any liability arising from that decision. Except for acts of gross negligence or willful or wanton misconduct, an employer who does or does not prohibit their employees from carrying a concealed or unconcealed weapon is immune from any liability arising from that decision. The provisions of this subsection shall not apply to claims pursuant to the Workers' Compensation Code.

    Added by Laws 1995, c. 272, 22, eff. Sept. 1, 1995. Amended by Laws 1996, c. 191, 19, emerg. eff. May 16, 1996; Laws 2004, c. 39, 2, eff. Nov. 1, 2004; Laws 2013, c. 366, 7, eff. Nov. 1, 2013.

    Disclaimer: These codes may not be the most recent version. Oklahoma may have more current or accurate information. We make no warranties or guarantees about the accuracy, completeness, or adequacy of the information contained on this site or the information linked to on the state site. Please check official sources.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 01-20-2016 at 09:02 AM.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    OK, I see that a person may be issued a citation in an amount not be exceed $250.00---- But for what? Violation of a statute that specifies "not be deemed a criminal act"?
    Yes, pretty much. It's not a crime. It's an infraction (not sure if that's a term used in Oklahoma law, but it is in many jurisdictions). It's similar to receiving a citation for a traffic violation. As I understand, this law was modeled after the idea of simple trespass, which is also not a crime (as opposed to "criminal trespass").

    What I've said above is probably not technically correct on all points. I'm no lawyer. But I'm pretty confident the gist of it is right.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    OK, I see that a person may be issued a citation in an amount not be exceed $250.00---- But for what? Violation of a statute that specifies "not be deemed a criminal act"?
    If you are told to leave and refuse, THEN it becomes CRIMINAL Trespass.
    I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them.

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  18. #18
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    One of the biggest problems Oklahoma has had is instructors giving bad class information. Even for the longest time on here I had witnessed people representing orginizations for gun rights giving bad advice. I always tell people refer to the handbook itself because following other peoples advice can land you in hot water and even jail. You can look the handbook up online and read it first hand without interpretations. If you still need legal advice its best to constult a legal professional who deals with this area of law.
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  19. #19
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    There is no case law dealing with TITLE 21 1290.22(D).

    It is a civil fine of $250. No criminal involved, period.

    Many state parking infractions are civil not criminal. Ohio is for sure.

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