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Thread: The story behind the mass termination of reciprocity - it ain't pretty

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    The story behind the mass termination of reciprocity - it ain't pretty

    It turns out that Herr Herring doesn't stand alone as the single culprit. He is joined by Colonel W. Steven Flagerty of the Virginia State Police, who actually made the decision to jerk the rug from so many visitors to the Commonwealth AND in turn invalidate Virginian CHPs as we travel.
    http://thebullelephant.com/unwrappin...stmas-present/

    Can you say "Enemy of the People?" Sure you can - the truth should come easy.

    Time to get out the broom and clean up this mess. Virginians deserve better than this treachery.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 01-17-2016 at 01:31 PM. Reason: Removed emoticon from title
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    After reading some stories early on it was clear that Colonel Flaherty had hands that were as filthy as A.G. Herring's. I would truly love it if the Kansas A.G.'s request for discussion regarding the loss of reciprocity produces criminal charges against both of these guys and they do time in prison. I won't bet on it, but I can dream!

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    look deeper .... I'm sure its not just from VA of this idea .. u just found a cheerleader .. good job. Continue your search for the truth.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 01-11-2016 at 08:44 PM.

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    It turns out that Herr Herring doesn't stand alone as the single culprit. He is joined by Colonel W. Steven Flagerty of the Virginia State Police, who actually made the decision to jerk the rug from so many visitors to the Commonwealth AND in turn invalidate Virginian CHPs as we travel.
    http://thebullelephant.com/unwrappin...stmas-present/

    Can you say "Enemy of the People?" Sure you can - the truth should come easy.

    Time to get out the broom and clean up this mess. Virginians deserve better than this treachery.
    Totally and completely fascinating. Thanks very much for the link.

    As for the contents - what skullduggery! Not only the VSP, but also the filthy hands of the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence! Such nice people! All they want is "common sense" gun laws. What BS!

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    look deeper .... I'm sure its not just from VA of this idea .. u just found a cheerleader .. good job. Continue your search for the truth.
    Herring had meetings with Obama, this is not just a VA thang. They intended to get the states cutting each other off.
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    I say as soon as we can get rid of these democratic turn coats, it's also time for a new leadership team in the State police too!
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf_shadow View Post
    I say as soon as we can get rid of these democratic turn coats, it's also time for a new leadership team in the State police too!
    Flagerty should be forbidden to hold a state job, except maybe as a local/municipal dog catcher or meter checker. He bites the hand that feeds him.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Flagerty should be forbidden to hold a state job, except maybe as a local/municipal dog catcher or meter checker. He bites the hand that feeds him.
    wishful thinking me thinks as he has just finished getting his ticket punched by paying his political overseers with this chit, they will assure he is taken care of...

    ipse
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    wishful thinking me thinks as he has just finished getting his ticket punched by paying his political overseers with this chit, they will assure he is taken care of...

    ipse
    Maybe we'd be so lucky as to see him run for public office.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Its time for the townsfolk to grab the torches and pitchforks. The monster must be destroyed!

    Without knowing anything about the terms left for those officials, I'd start up with the recall petitions. It worked in CO to remove a few idiots.
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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    It turns out that Herr Herring doesn't stand alone as the single culprit. He is joined by Colonel W. Steven Flagerty of the Virginia State Police, who actually made the decision to jerk the rug from so many visitors to the Commonwealth AND in turn invalidate Virginian CHPs as we travel.
    http://thebullelephant.com/unwrappin...stmas-present/

    Can you say "Enemy of the People?" Sure you can - the truth should come easy.

    Time to get out the broom and clean up this mess. Virginians deserve better than this treachery.
    It's Colonel W. Steven Flaherty - Part two is where you will find the outrage.

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    Walter Stosch is the real villain

    Here, let's package everything together:

    Part 1: Unwrapping the Unwanted Christmas Present

    Part 2: The Unwanted Christmas Present: Clearing the Obstacles
    Senator Stosch was working behind the scenes with the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence. Sen. Stosch knew that he, and other Republicans, could not openly oppose HB 1329. So instead of killing HB 1329 in a Committee he added a poison pill. The budget requirement would allow Republicans, like him, to support the bill while they would be required to pass a nominal but disruptive $339,500 budget amendment over the objections of Democrats.

    On February 23, 2015, while HB 1329 was sitting in the Conference Committee, Lori Hanky Haas, Virginia Director for the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence recounts to Lt. Col. Robert Kemmler of the Virginia State Police her conversation with Sen. Stosch regarding HB 1329.

    HB 1329 never came back to the floor. It seems Sen. Stosch’s efforts led to a quiet defeat with minimal uproar. Ten months later Herring could complete his plan by convincing the VSP to revoke CCW rights from 25 states’ residents.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Repeater View Post
    It's Colonel W. Steven Flaherty - Part two is where you will find the outrage.
    Flagerty, Flaherty....still spells "stink!"
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    How hard can it be to get one state employee fired?

    TFred

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    How hard can it be to get one state employee fired?

    TFred
    I'm betting threatening his pension would get his attention even sooner.



    Separately, I wonder if the facts will allow accusations that "for all these years, Col. Flaherty was granting reciprocity illegally to some 30 states." Y'know what I mean? Unless all those states monkeyed with and lowered their requirements behind Flaherty's back, then Flaherty illegally granted reciprocity in the first place.

    He can't have it both ways. Either it was legal to grant reciprocity then, making today's actions illegitimate, or today's actions are legitimate because he granted reciprocity in violation of the statute.

    Do the facts and statute text bear that sort of interpretation?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    When all y'all are finished with your fantasies about retribution and calling down hellfire and brimstone, we can start discussing how certain non-elected positions in Va government are filled, who is responsible for selecting and dismissing those appointees, and what The Code of Virginia has to say about recalling elected officials.

    I believe that venting your spleen is good for the spleen, the blood pressure, and the soul. But refusing to move on into reality accomplishes nothing but the massacre of innocent electrons.

    stay safe.
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    § 24.2-233 Removal of elected and certain appointed officers by courts.

    Upon petition, a circuit court may remove from office any elected officer or officer who has been appointed to fill an elective office, residing within the jurisdiction of the court:

    1. For neglect of duty, misuse of office, or incompetence in the performance of duties when that neglect of duty, misuse of office, or incompetence in the performance of duties has a material adverse effect upon the conduct of the office, or

    2. Upon conviction of a misdemeanor pursuant to Article 1 (§ 18.2-247 et seq.) or Article 1.1 (§ 18.2-265.1 et seq.) of Chapter 7 of Title 18.2 and after all rights of appeal have terminated involving the:

    a. Manufacture, sale, gift, distribution, or possession with intent to manufacture, sell, give, or distribute a controlled substance, marijuana, or synthetic cannabinoids as defined in § 18.2-248.1:1, or

    b. Sale, possession with intent to sell, or placing an advertisement for the purpose of selling drug paraphernalia, or

    c. Possession of any controlled substance, marijuana, or synthetic cannabinoids as defined in § 18.2-248.1:1, and such conviction under a, b, or c has a material adverse effect upon the conduct of such office, or

    3. Upon conviction, and after all rights of appeal have terminated, of a misdemeanor involving a “hate crime” as that term is defined in § 52-8.5 when the conviction has a material adverse effect upon the conduct of such office.

    The petition must be signed by a number of registered voters who reside within the jurisdiction of the officer equal to ten percent of the total number of votes cast at the last election for the office that the officer holds.

    Any person removed from office under the provisions of subdivision 2 or 3 may not be subsequently subject to the provisions of this section for the same criminal offense.
    History

    1975, cc. 515, 595, § 24.1-79.5; 1989, c. 470; 1993, c. 641; 2002, cc. 588, 623; 2011, cc. 384, 410.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markand View Post
    § 24.2-233 Removal of elected and certain appointed officers by courts.

    Upon petition, a circuit court may remove from office any elected officer or officer who has been appointed to fill an elective office, residing within the jurisdiction of the court:

    1. For neglect of duty, misuse of office, or incompetence in the performance of duties when that neglect of duty, misuse of office, or incompetence in the performance of duties has a material adverse effect upon the conduct of the office, or

    2. Upon conviction of a misdemeanor pursuant to Article 1 (§ 18.2-247 et seq.) or Article 1.1 (§ 18.2-265.1 et seq.) of Chapter 7 of Title 18.2 and after all rights of appeal have terminated involving the:

    a. Manufacture, sale, gift, distribution, or possession with intent to manufacture, sell, give, or distribute a controlled substance, marijuana, or synthetic cannabinoids as defined in § 18.2-248.1:1, or

    b. Sale, possession with intent to sell, or placing an advertisement for the purpose of selling drug paraphernalia, or

    c. Possession of any controlled substance, marijuana, or synthetic cannabinoids as defined in § 18.2-248.1:1, and such conviction under a, b, or c has a material adverse effect upon the conduct of such office, or

    3. Upon conviction, and after all rights of appeal have terminated, of a misdemeanor involving a “hate crime” as that term is defined in § 52-8.5 when the conviction has a material adverse effect upon the conduct of such office.

    The petition must be signed by a number of registered voters who reside within the jurisdiction of the officer equal to ten percent of the total number of votes cast at the last election for the office that the officer holds.

    Any person removed from office under the provisions of subdivision 2 or 3 may not be subsequently subject to the provisions of this section for the same criminal offense.
    History

    1975, cc. 515, 595, § 24.1-79.5; 1989, c. 470; 1993, c. 641; 2002, cc. 588, 623; 2011, cc. 384, 410.
    I do not see how that statute will apply to Col. Flaherty. He was not elected by registered voters in the normal sense of things.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 01-12-2016 at 09:30 PM. Reason: fixed
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    I do not see how that statute will apply to Col. Flaherty. He was not elected by registered voters in the normal sense of things.
    The only one elected was the person who appointed the guy who appointed him. (For those that need a clue - it's a straight line from the governor to the Secretary of Public Safety to the head of the VSP.)

    These folks serve at the pleasure of the cabinet secretary, just as the cabinet secretaries serve at the pleasure of the governor. In a very small number of instances political pressure has been brought to change the appointed heads of executive branch agencies and, IIRC, once a cabinet secretary.

    How does one create political pressure? You all know the answer to that question. Sadly, I do not see the numbers and the commitment to get it done. This is not a one-off canned email but a sustained series of contacts backed with real voter block consequences. I really, truly wish someone could prove me wrong.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    When all y'all are finished with your fantasies about retribution and calling down hellfire and brimstone, we can start discussing how certain non-elected positions in Va government are filled, who is responsible for selecting and dismissing those appointees, and what The Code of Virginia has to say about recalling elected officials.

    I believe that venting your spleen is good for the spleen, the blood pressure, and the soul. But refusing to move on into reality accomplishes nothing but the massacre of innocent electrons.
    +1

    (and LOL on top of it!)

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    By Charles Sanders Peirce's principle of the Identity of indiscernibles, it is considered that there may be only one single electron, but capable of universal presence.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-electron_universe
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    By Charles Sanders Peirce's principle of the Identity of indiscernibles, it is considered that there may be only one single electron, but capable of universal presence.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-electron_universe
    Well, then quit beating it to death over and over again!

    (If you really need something to beat on, as far as I'm concerned my ex is both available and deserving. Also, for the cause I will forego the usual sale of tickets.)

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Well, then quit beating it to death over and over again!

    (If you really need something to beat on, as far as I'm concerned my ex is both available and deserving. Also, for the cause I will forego the usual sale of tickets.)

    stay safe.
    I dunno, man. That's getting awful close to violating the forum rule about we only advocate for the law-abiding. And, I'm not sure your comment portrays OCer's in a light favorable to OCDO's standards.

    While I'm sure you're not actually inviting him to beat your wife, I think it might be better if you didn't vent your antagonism to your ex in quite that way. I'm guessing there are other phrasings one can use about beating on something without mentioning an ex.

    Moderator: No objection to you deleting the quote balloon in this post, or even the entire post, if Skid reconsiders and decides to delete his post.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I dunno, man. That's getting awful close to violating the forum rule about we only advocate for the law-abiding. And, I'm not sure your comment portrays OCer's in a light favorable to OCDO's standards.

    While I'm sure you're not actually inviting him to beat your wife, I think it might be better if you didn't vent your antagonism to your ex in quite that way. I'm guessing there are other phrasings one can use about beating on something without mentioning an ex.

    Moderator: No objection to you deleting the quote balloon in this post, or even the entire post, if Skid reconsiders and decides to delete his post.
    How magnanimous of you to not object to a moderator doing his job in the manner he sees fit.

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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Honestly this is expected. You don't rely on government to give you permission to exercise a right you already have. You do it because the Constitution says you can. All other things are a waste of time and space
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

    "Any and all restrictions on the bearing of arms in public places are nullified as per the Second Amendment"

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