Jury Duty

syn-ack · Jan 15, 2016

I may totally be missing something, so I am hoping someone can show me why I am wrong... But, how is being required to perform jury duty by the government, and hence being required to enter the courthouse where firearms are prohibited, not a violation of second amendment rights?

I have not been called to jury duty, a friend at work was, and it just got my wheels turning. I tried to google, but did not find anything challenging this either way.

notalawyer · Jan 15, 2016

syn-ack said:
I may totally be missing something, so I am hoping someone can show me why I am wrong... But, how is being required to perform jury duty by the government, and hence being required to enter the courthouse where firearms are prohibited, not a violation of second amendment rights?

I have not been called to jury duty, a friend at work was, and it just got my wheels turning. I tried to google, but did not find anything challenging this either way.

Because the government said so. :shocker:

davidmcbeth · Jan 15, 2016

syn-ack said:
I may totally be missing something, so I am hoping someone can show me why I am wrong... But, how is being required to perform jury duty by the government, and hence being required to enter the courthouse where firearms are prohibited, not a violation of second amendment rights?

I have not been called to jury duty, a friend at work was, and it just got my wheels turning. I tried to google, but did not find anything challenging this either way.

Go to google scholar and search "administrative search" and you'll learn why the gov't thinks so.

Your friend is not going to find anyone guilty, right? All laws are made behind closed doors .. hence violate 14th amendment due process rights IMO.

notalawyer · Jan 15, 2016

Nightmare said:
The Florida Constitution allows the manner of the bearing of arms to be regulated. Florida state law codifies those regulations.

Which law, specifically, prohibits firearms carry in a courthouse? And by 'law' we mean an act passed by the Florida Legislature.

Citizen · Jan 15, 2016

notalawyer said:
Which law, specifically, prohibits firearms carry in a courthouse? And by 'law' we mean an act passed by the Florida Legislature.

The statute giving judges power over their own courthouse?

notalawyer · Jan 15, 2016

Citizen said:
The statute giving judges power over their own courthouse?

No such law exists, care to try again?

notalawyer · Jan 15, 2016

Nightmare said:
Florida Rules of Judicial Administration
PART I. GENERAL PROVISIONS
RULE 2.110.
SCOPE AND PURPOSE
These rules, cited as “Florida Rules of Judicial Administration” and abbreviated as “Fla. R. Jud. Admin.,” shall take effect at 12:01 a.m. on July 1, 1979. They shall apply to administrative matters in all courts to which the rules are applicable by their terms. The rules shall be construed to secure the speedy and inexpensive determination of every proceeding to which they are applicable. These rules shall supersede all conflicting rules and statutes.

There follow 200 pages. There are eight other volumes of rules.

Not a law.

These rules shall supersede all conflicting rules and statutes.

Sorry, but several District Courts of Appeal and the Florida Supreme Court disagree.

It is axiomatic that an administrative rule cannot enlarge, modify or contravene the provisions of a statute.

syn-ack · Jan 29, 2016

So, I guess I may be right to think there is something not right about this? I have not been accused of a crime, yet I am being forced into service somewhere that not only do I not want to be, but that would prohibit me from exercising my 2A rights.

I know there has been argument that jury duty is a violation in of itself, of the 13th amendment. Honestly, I'd not have a problem with it, be it not for the fact they refuse my 2A rights, when I am not a criminal, have not been convicted of a crime, have not even been accused of a crime.

Elm Creek Smith · Jan 29, 2016

Florida Constitution
Article I DECLARATION OF RIGHTS
SECTION 8. Right to bear arms.—
(a) The right of the people to keep and bear arms in defense of themselves and of the lawful authority of the state shall not be infringed, except that the manner of bearing arms may be regulated by law.

Article V JUDICIARY
SECTION 2. Administration; practice and procedure.—
(a) The supreme court shall adopt rules for the practice and procedure in all courts including the time for seeking appellate review, the administrative supervision of all courts, the transfer to the court having jurisdiction of any proceeding when the jurisdiction of another court has been improvidently invoked, and a requirement that no cause shall be dismissed because an improper remedy has been sought. The supreme court shall adopt rules to allow the court and the district courts of appeal to submit questions relating to military law to the federal Court of Appeals for the Armed Forces for an advisory opinion. Rules of court may be repealed by general law enacted by two-thirds vote of the membership of each house of the legislature.

Looks like the Florida Constitution allows the Judiciary the power to regulate the procedures of their courts.

The 2015 Florida Statutes
Title XLVI
CRIMES

Chapter 790
WEAPONS AND FIREARMS

790.06 License to carry concealed weapon or firearm.—

(12)(a) A license issued under this section does not authorize any person to openly carry a handgun or carry a concealed weapon or firearm into:
4. Any courthouse;

The Florida Concealed Carry Law prohibits carry in courthouses.

I don't have a dog in this fight, because I don't live in Florida. Just trying to help.

syn-ack · Jan 29, 2016

I understand not being able to carry in certain places. What I don't understand is them forcing you to come to a place you cannot carry, when you have committed no crime.

Elm Creek Smith · Jan 29, 2016

syn-ack said:
I understand not being able to carry in certain places. What I don't understand is them forcing you to come to a place you cannot carry, when you have committed no crime.

You could always refuse to show up. :lol: Let us know how that works out for you! Alternatively, you could call the courthouse to see if you're eligible for an exemption from your civic duty. :banana:

notalawyer · Jan 29, 2016

Elm Creek Smith said:
You could always refuse to show up. :lol: Let us know how that works out for you! Alternatively, you could call the courthouse to see if you're eligible for an exemption from your civic duty. :banana:

I did, like 20 years ago. Never been sent a summons since. Wifey, on the other hand, gets called up every couple years.

notalawyer · Jan 29, 2016

Elm Creek Smith said:
Looks like the Florida Constitution allows the Judiciary the power to regulate the procedures of their courts.

The Florida Concealed Carry Law prohibits carry in courthouses.

I don't have a dog in this fight, because I don't live in Florida. Just trying to help.

Looks like the Florida Constitution allows the Judiciary the power to regulate the procedures of their courts.

This is the one that has been bastardized to allow judges far too much control over something they should have no authority.

The Florida Concealed Carry Law prohibits carry in courthouses.

Well, technically that says the license does not authorize a license holder to carry there, but employees can 'legally' carry there (although I'm sure there are more of these administrative rules that prohibit it - but most of the employees get to skip the metal detectors and searches - even the non-court related employees), through the provisions of 790.25(3)

.

Elm Creek Smith · Jan 29, 2016

notalawyer said:
I did, like 20 years ago. Never been sent a summons since. Wifey, on the other hand, gets called up every couple years.

I may as well have. Both times I was called up defense attorneys and plaintiffs' counsels treated me like I was the plague incarnate.

I don't know why.

notalawyer · Jan 29, 2016

Elm Creek Smith said:
I may as well have. Both times I was called up defense attorneys and plaintiffs' counsels treated me like I was the plague incarnate. I don't know why.

Yeah, I don't waste my time as neither side would allow me to serve, let alone the judge, with my jury nullification leanings and outright refusal to blindly follow his interpretation of the law.

davidmcbeth · Jan 30, 2016

notalawyer said:
I did, like 20 years ago. Never been sent a summons since. Wifey, on the other hand, gets called up every couple years.

They don't call me anymore since I was picked for a trial about 4-6 yrs ago .... the judge did not like my comments to him. Go figure.

StogieC · Jan 30, 2016

notalawyer said:
No such law exists, care to try again?

It exists, it's not new, it's a law...

790.06(12)(a) A license issued under this section does not authorize any person to openly carry a handgun or carry a concealed weapon or firearm into:...
4. Any courthouse;
5. Any courtroom, except that nothing in this section would preclude a judge from carrying a concealed weapon or determining who will carry a concealed weapon in his or her courtroom;

davidmcbeth · Jan 30, 2016

StogieC said:
It exists, it's not new, it's a law...

790.06(12)(a) A license issued under this section does not authorize any person to openly carry a handgun or carry a concealed weapon or firearm into:...
4. Any courthouse;
5. Any courtroom, except that nothing in this section would preclude a judge from carrying a concealed weapon or determining who will carry a concealed weapon in his or her courtroom;

How is the judge going to get the gun from outside to his courtroom?

notalawyer · Jan 31, 2016

StogieC said:
It exists, it's not new, it's a law...

790.06(12)(a) A license issued under this section does not authorize any person to openly carry a handgun or carry a concealed weapon or firearm into:...
4. Any courthouse;
5. Any courtroom, except that nothing in this section would preclude a judge from carrying a concealed weapon or determining who will carry a concealed weapon in his or her courtroom;

Come on Sean, you know better than that.

That is technically not a law that makes carry into a courthouse/room unlawful. That simply says that a CWFL does not authorize it (with associated penalties), but employees can certainly carry there.

Fallschirjmäger · Jan 31, 2016

Everyone whines about being notified to appear for jury selection and what a pain it is and how it affects their freedom.

I for one, am more frightened about a society that only allowed/required people that wanted to serve on juries.
There's this guy:

Who's going to do his best to stretch out the process of reaching a verdict as long as he can for the free lunches, never mind the whole guilty/innocent thing.

And there's ol' Ms Grundy with her cats peering over her glasses at the young man accused of playing his music 'too loud' without any measure of what 'too loud' is?

Or, the Social Justice Warriors determined to bring justice and equality to everyone, all the time, at any cost, as long as it solely benefits their belief that they are oppressed by the very society they live in.

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