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Jury Duty

hammer6

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2008
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1,461
Location
Florida
Come on Sean, you know better than that.

That is technically not a law that makes carry into a courthouse/room unlawful. That simply says that a CWFL does not authorize it (with associated penalties), but employees can certainly carry there.

wait.


what???


can you please expound upon this???
 

davidmcbeth

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Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
Who makes a big stink everytime they are searched to get into a courthouse to the consternation of the security there?

Thats me. I've had to call the chief judge on several occasions to get access.

They hate america.
 

hammer6

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2008
Messages
1,461
Location
Florida
Who makes a big stink everytime they are searched to get into a courthouse to the consternation of the security there?

Thats me. I've had to call the chief judge on several occasions to get access.

They hate america.

do we know what this means?
 

notalawyer

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2012
Messages
1,061
Location
Florida
wait.


what???


can you please expound upon this???
Some people are going to chime in with "A distinction with of difference is no distinction at all.", but it really does matter. Words mean things - especially when talking legalities.

There are only a couple places where the possession of a firearm is unlawful under state law in Florida.
Schools (OK if securely encased in cars on university property, OK if securely encased in cars in K-12 drop off/pick up - there's some argument about non-students parking w/ gun in car - we won;t go into that here);
Jails/prisons/detention facilities;
State Mental Health Facilities (not regular hospitals w/ mental health facilities) - but provide an exception for CWFL holder and others;
And for whatever weird reason, the Savannahs State Reserve.

That's it.

The prohibited location list contained in 790.06(12)(a) is a license restriction, which only applies to CWFL holders (when carrying under the provisions of that license). They naysayers are going to say "Well, no one else can carry concealed, so it does not matter." to which I say, well that is not entirely true.

We have 790.25(3) which states that 790.06 and 790.053 (and via case law 790.01) do not apply to people carrying concealed (or openly) in certain locations or participating in certain activities. One of those is the individual's place of business. So if someone works at a courthouse, or police station, or bar, or airport, etc. it is not a violation of 790.06(12)(a), or the open carry prohibition ,790.053, for them to carry a concealed (or openly carried) firearm while at work.

Now, I'm not saying that the judicial administrative rules don't have teeth, they certainly do (and since the Florida Supreme Court has the last say on all things legal, they allow these rules to be bastardized beyond their proper scope - keeping the courts running smoothly. - because they are scared of guns, just like most of government.) A firearm on my hip has absolutely no impact on a smooth running court.
 

hammer6

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2008
Messages
1,461
Location
Florida
Some people are going to chime in with "A distinction with of difference is no distinction at all.", but it really does matter. Words mean things - especially when talking legalities.

There are only a couple places where the possession of a firearm is unlawful under state law in Florida.
Schools (OK if securely encased in cars on university property, OK if securely encased in cars in K-12 drop off/pick up - there's some argument about non-students parking w/ gun in car - we won;t go into that here);
Jails/prisons/detention facilities;
State Mental Health Facilities (not regular hospitals w/ mental health facilities) - but provide an exception for CWFL holder and others;
And for whatever weird reason, the Savannahs State Reserve.

That's it.

The prohibited location list contained in 790.06(12)(a) is a license restriction, which only applies to CWFL holders (when carrying under the provisions of that license). They naysayers are going to say "Well, no one else can carry concealed, so it does not matter." to which I say, well that is not entirely true.

We have 790.25(3) which states that 790.06 and 790.053 (and via case law 790.01) do not apply to people carrying concealed (or openly) in certain locations or participating in certain activities. One of those is the individual's place of business. So if someone works at a courthouse, or police station, or bar, or airport, etc. it is not a violation of 790.06(12)(a), or the open carry prohibition ,790.053, for them to carry a concealed (or openly carried) firearm while at work.

Now, I'm not saying that the judicial administrative rules don't have teeth, they certainly do (and since the Florida Supreme Court has the last say on all things legal, they allow these rules to be bastardized beyond their proper scope - keeping the courts running smoothly. - because they are scared of guns, just like most of government.) A firearm on my hip has absolutely no impact on a smooth running court.


so what about employees of schools?
 

notalawyer

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2012
Messages
1,061
Location
Florida
so what about employees of schools?

Inside the school buildings? 790.115 says it's unlawful to carry on the property of any school. (Unless authorized by the principal, superintendent, or school board in support of school activities (like security, armored car drivers, etc.)

The argument I referred to earlier has to do with parking. The exception to allow securely encased firearms itself has an exception wherein the school board can waive the exception for the purposes for student and campus parking privileges. The default is to allow securely encased firearms, but school boards can write and publish a policy waiving that exception.

So if they have a policy, students and presumably teachers/staff cannot legally keep a gun in their car. Does that apply to parents/visitors? Probably not. Also even if they don't waive the exception, they could expel students (for no firearm policy), and fire teachers. 790.251 does not include protections for school employees.

That's for public K-12.

For private K-12, there is no 'School Board' (a distinct legal entity, a political subdivision of the state as ruled in the Florida Carry v. UNF case) so they cannot waive the exception and thus make it unlawful to securely encase a firearm. But they can fire teachers/staff, expel students, and trespass visitors/parents.

For public colleges/universities, they are not 'school boards' either, so they cannot waive the exception thus making securely encased firearms unlawful. Also they are prohibited from disciplining students/teachers/staff and cant do anything to parents/visitors.

Private colleges/universities are not 'school boards' either, so they cannot waive the exception thus making securely encased firearms unlawful. But they can fire teachers/staff, expel students, and trespass visitors/parents.



ETA: There is also an exception for "In a case to a firearms program, class or function which has been approved in advance by the principal or chief administrative officer of the school as a program or class to which firearms could be carried
 
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