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Thread: UCF police says gun owners ‘threat to themselves and others’

  1. #1
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    UCF police says gun owners ‘threat to themselves and others’

    Chief Richard Beary built his argument on “decades of training and law enforcement experience.”

    http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=7172
    A public humiliation effort should be mounted to have the Good Chief removed from his position.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    The sky is falling.....

    These people believe that if they keep making the same arguments over and over that it will come true.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    A public humiliation effort should be mounted to have the Good Chief removed from his position.
    No, no, no! A thousand times no!

    Hammer away at him to provide evidence to back up his claims, and then hammer him continually for not providing the documentation.

    "I'm not calling you a liar, Chief, but you keep saying gun owners are a threat to themselves and others without ever showing the proof you have been repeatedly requested to provide."

    "Chief, what evidence do you have to support your claim that gun owners are a threat to themselves and others?"

    "Chief, can you explain your claim that gun owners are a threat to themselves and others when it is documented that police have more negligent discharges and shoot "innocent bystanders" than lawful gun owners?"

    D not force him out of office - make him quit in the face of being shown to be both untruthful and a bigot. Or at least have his superiors terminate him for embarrassing the institution.

    stay safe.
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    Stupid people seem to breed more and faster than intelligent people.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    "Chief, can you explain your claim that gun owners are a threat to themselves and others when it is documented that police have more negligent discharges and shoot "innocent bystanders" than lawful gun owners?"
    My first thought.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    No, no, no! A thousand times no!

    Hammer away at him to provide evidence to back up his claims, and then hammer him continually for not providing the documentation.

    "I'm not calling you a liar, Chief, but you keep saying gun owners are a threat to themselves and others without ever showing the proof you have been repeatedly requested to provide."

    "Chief, what evidence do you have to support your claim that gun owners are a threat to themselves and others?"

    "Chief, can you explain your claim that gun owners are a threat to themselves and others when it is documented that police have more negligent discharges and shoot "innocent bystanders" than lawful gun owners?"

    D not force him out of office - make him quit in the face of being shown to be both untruthful and a bigot. Or at least have his superiors terminate him for embarrassing the institution.

    stay safe.
    From the linked article in the op.
    Chief Richard Beary built his argument on “decades of training and law enforcement experience,” saying “an untrained person with a legally owned gun is more of a threat to themselves and others than they are a helper of the law.”

    According to Beary, law enforcement officers may be the only citizens with the proper experience to deal with an active shooter situation.

    “A concealed weapons permit does not make you a hero. A concealed weapons permit does not teach you how to deal with an active shooter. A concealed weapons permit does not make you a trained law enforcement officer,” he added.
    A interview with the Good Chief back in November 2014.
    What's the story behind UCF's trauma kits?

    In the wake of mass shootings at university campuses elsewhere in the U.S., Beary introduced a concept at UCF adopted from the military. UCF officers are now equipped with special first-aid kits, and they are trained to provide immediate medical care for patients. The goal is to bridge the gap between police arrival and medical-team response. "I can't stop the shooting from happening, but I can reduce the number of victims, and if we've done that, then we've been incredibly successful," Beary said. The trauma kits have been popular, with many schools and police agencies across the country adopting them.

    http://www.orlandosentinel.com/os-uc...125-story.html
    The Good Chief may be able to get to the scene in 3 minutes, in the mean time he demands that a victim on the scene wait 3 minutes for a professional to arrive. Compromise, you go ahead and demand the Good Chief to provide the data that corroborates his claims, while I lampoon him endlessly for his own nitwittery.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  7. #7
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    From the linked article in the op.A interview with the Good Chief back in November 2014.The Good Chief may be able to get to the scene in 3 minutes, in the mean time he demands that a victim on the scene wait 3 minutes for a professional to arrive. Compromise, you go ahead and demand the Good Chief to provide the data that corroborates his claims, while I lampoon him endlessly for his own nitwittery.
    The cherry on top.

    UCF officers are now equipped with special first-aid kits, and they are trained to provide immediate medical care for patients. The goal is to bridge the gap between police arrival and medical-team response.
    I'll leave it to you to draw the nitwittery that is located in this statement. A hint is underlined.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    So the "good" chief is using his vast experience with the 5% UNLAWFUL portion of the community which he regularly is involved with and extrapolates this experience with CRIMINALS to the 95% of the population WHICH HAVE CAUSED HIM NO PROBLEMS WHATSOEVER? Did I get this right?
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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    Regular Member ADulay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    No, no, no! A thousand times no!

    Hammer away at him to provide evidence to back up his claims, and then hammer him continually for not providing the documentation.

    "I'm not calling you a liar, Chief, but you keep saying gun owners are a threat to themselves and others without ever showing the proof you have been repeatedly requested to provide."

    "Chief, what evidence do you have to support your claim that gun owners are a threat to themselves and others?"

    "Chief, can you explain your claim that gun owners are a threat to themselves and others when it is documented that police have more negligent discharges and shoot "innocent bystanders" than lawful gun owners?"

    D not force him out of office - make him quit in the face of being shown to be both untruthful and a bigot. Or at least have his superiors terminate him for embarrassing the institution.
    That sounds like a pretty good plan to me!

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    So the "good" chief is using his vast experience with the 5% UNLAWFUL portion of the community which he regularly is involved with and extrapolates this experience with CRIMINALS to the 95% of the population WHICH HAVE CAUSED HIM NO PROBLEMS WHATSOEVER? Did I get this right?
    I demand a cite that it was as high as 5%.

    Or are we talking about the percentage of crooked cops? In which case, I still demand a cite, possible for the opposite reason.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    "Chief, can you explain your claim that gun owners are a threat to themselves and others when it is documented that police have more negligent discharges and shoot "innocent bystanders" than lawful gun owners?"
    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    My first thought.
    That was my first thought as well. If all my 'training and experience' was based upon years with the local constabulary, I'd probably be leery of anyone carrying a firearm as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    I demand a cite that it was as high as 5%.

    Or are we talking about the percentage of crooked cops? In which case, I still demand a cite, possible for the opposite reason.
    Closest you are going to get to a "cite" for this.....

    Percentages were taken from a 'motivational' posting in the LEHI City Police department in Lehi, Ut from the local police chief admonishing those city officers to remember that 95% of their time was spent dealing with only 5% of the population causing problems. I don't know where he got his percentages from but my posting is a 'fair' representation of what was posted on that bulletin board in the PD that I did see with my own eyes several times!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    I thought my demand was an obvious rhetorical comment. You exceeded my expectations, sir!
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    I demand a cite that it was as high as 5%.
    This Wiki article pegs the total percentage of US adults under "correctional supervision" as just shy of 3% (almost 1% incarcerated; almost 2% on probation, parole, or some other form of supervision).

    The article repeats claims about the number of "non violent" offenders in prison, but I'm reminded that Ponzi schemes and other fraud that steals life savings are "non violent". And long prison terns are probably the only constitutionally permissible penalty appropriate for a guy who steals from old folks so he can avoid real work.

    I also note that while many persons in prison have drug issues, very few are drawing prison terms for simple possession and personal use. Dealing, theft, gang violence, or other crimes that may be associated with illicit recreational use will lead to prison terms.

    Finally, the popular press reports that as many as 20% of Americans suffer from some form of Mental Health problems each year with "About 5 percent of Americans have suffered from such severe mental illness that it interfered with day-to-day school, work or family."

    I'd say that 5% is a pretty safe, round number, for the portion of our population responsible for the vast majority of crime that police have to deal with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    I thought my demand was an obvious rhetorical comment. You exceeded my expectations, sir!
    I am a guy and as a guy I don't do subtle, sarcasm, or rhetorical very well without it be identified as such. Especially, when I am to discern it from text only without any voice tone, facial expression, or gestures to give me a clue.

    So, in compliance with a certain forum rule demanding "cites to authority" when one makes certain posts, I provided what I could.... LOL

    Now that I know your comment was not one of a small richard variety.....
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
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    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    I am a guy and as a guy I don't do subtle, sarcasm, or rhetorical very well without it be identified as such. Especially, when I am to discern it from text only without any voice tone, facial expression, or gestures to give me a clue.

    So, in compliance with a certain forum rule demanding "cites to authority" when one makes certain posts, I provided what I could.... LOL

    Now that I know your comment was not one of a small richard variety.....
    I'll need to see a citation to a recognized authority for that. Any woman will do. Especially a wife.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    The chief is likely a high school graduate. His arguments are that of a high schooler. He's not an expert at all.

    Show me ANY incident of a shooting at a school and I'll guess how the cops dealt with it: 1st) make a perimeter
    2nd) management makes decisions that insure that their fellow cops are not hurt.

    Cops have zero duty to defend or protect citizens ... they do have an obligation to protect other cops.

    Like firemen ... management's first priority to to their own department members.

    He talks like he's a soldier ... well, your not. He isn't running into a bldg where active shooting is occurring. He wants to go home.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 01-18-2016 at 11:30 PM.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I'll need to see a citation to a recognized authority for that. Any woman will do. Especially a wife.
    ANY wife?
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
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    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    ANY wife?
    At first that was funny. Then I remembered you are in Utah, and that made it downright hysterical.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    At first that was funny. Then I remembered you are in Utah, and that made it downright hysterical.
    Wasn't going there as I ONLY have 1 wife, but he didnt specify WHO"S wife.

    I guess I could have just had him check with HIS wife but I wasn't sure I wanted to be that 'pointed'. LOL
    Last edited by JoeSparky; 01-19-2016 at 05:42 PM.
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
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    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    At first that was funny. Then I remembered you are in Utah, and that made it downright hysterical.
    From Utah:



    It's good stuff, btw!
    Last edited by BB62; 01-19-2016 at 07:23 PM.

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    Portilla has said he will be the Republican fall guy and kill campus carry again this year. No word yet on OC.

    The politics are interesting, maybe Thrasher still haunts us. There are no reasonable arguments against cwfl holders carrying at schools.

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    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Regular Member ADulay's Avatar
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    I think the "logic" of the legislators is that although you may an absolutely normal, concealed carrier in your normal life, the minute you attend a university, you become some kind of deranged killer with a gun.

    Their logic is obviously flawed.

    They get to vote on it. We don't.

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    Last edited by ADulay; 01-26-2016 at 07:05 PM.
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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    I heard Bill has a wife available.....

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