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Thread: Link Transit bans open carry in violation of Washington State law - Action Item!

  1. #1
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    Link Transit bans open carry in violation of Washington State law - Action Item!

    https://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/...aled-carry-ok/

    SNIP

    Link bans open carry of firearms; concealed carry OK

    by Pete O'Cainstaff writer Jan. 19, 2016, 5:19 p.m.
    Business, Public Safety

    WENATCHEE — Last summer, a Link Transit passenger was carrying a BB gun wrapped in a sweatshirt, and made other passengers uncomfortable.

    The incident prompted Link board of directors to reexamine its policy and on Tuesday ban the open carry of firearms, including rifles.
    . . .

    Break

    Link Transit appears to be a creation and extension of local government(s) in this area of Washington state, see http://www.linktransit.com/more-link...t-link-transit, and board of directors from localities at http://www.linktransit.com/more-link/board-of-directors.

    However Washington has a preemption statute providing that "Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities may enact only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law, as in RCW 9.41.300." A quick look at RCW 9.41.300 finds that Link transit's new regulations banning open carry are NOT authorized by RCW 9.41.300.

    Link Transit's actions appear unlawful and without the force of law.

    Note: "RCW 9.41.290, State preemption.
    The state of Washington hereby fully occupies and preempts the entire field of firearms regulation within the boundaries of the state, including the registration, licensing, possession, purchase, sale, acquisition, transfer, discharge, and transportation of firearms, or any other element relating to firearms or parts thereof, including ammunition and reloader components. Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities may enact only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law, as in RCW 9.41.300, and are consistent with this chapter. Such local ordinances shall have the same penalty as provided for by state law. Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistent with, more restrictive than, or exceed the requirements of state law shall not be enacted and are preempted and repealed, regardless of the nature of the code, charter, or home rule status of such city, town, county, or municipality.
    [1994 sp.s. c 7 § 428; 1985 c 428 § 1; 1983 c 232 § 12.]"

    ##########

    Suggested Action: Email webmaster@linktransit.com with a short but direct email - example follows:

    Dear Link Transit executives:

    I object to your recent ban on the open carry of firearms on the Link system because your action violates the Washington state constitution which provides that "The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired."

    Moreover, your regulation specifically violates long standing statutory law at RCW 9.41.290, State preemption; additionally, Link transit's new regulations banning open carry are NOT authorized by RCW 9.41.300.

    I'm telling you what I'm going to do - I'm going to open carry on linktransit.com every chance I get.

    Please let me know what YOU are going to do.

    Sincerely,

    YOUR NAME
    YOUR TOWN
    Last edited by Mike; 01-19-2016 at 10:44 PM.

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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    https://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/...aled-carry-ok/

    SNIP

    Link bans open carry of firearms; concealed carry OK

    by Pete O'Cainstaff writer Jan. 19, 2016, 5:19 p.m.
    Business, Public Safety

    WENATCHEE — Last summer, a Link Transit passenger was carrying a BB gun wrapped in a sweatshirt, and made other passengers uncomfortable.

    The incident prompted Link board of directors to reexamine its policy and on Tuesday ban the open carry of firearms, including rifles.
    . . .

    Break

    Link Transit appears to be a creation and extension of local government(s) in this area of Washington state, see http://www.linktransit.com/more-link...t-link-transit, and board of directors from localities at http://www.linktransit.com/more-link/board-of-directors.

    However Washington has a preemption statute providing that "Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities may enact only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law, as in RCW 9.41.300." A quick look at RCW 9.41.300 finds that Link transit's new regulations banning open carry are NOT authorized by RCW 9.41.300.

    Link Transit's actions appear unlawful and without the force of law.

    Note: "RCW 9.41.290, State preemption.
    The state of Washington hereby fully occupies and preempts the entire field of firearms regulation within the boundaries of the state, including the registration, licensing, possession, purchase, sale, acquisition, transfer, discharge, and transportation of firearms, or any other element relating to firearms or parts thereof, including ammunition and reloader components. Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities may enact only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law, as in RCW 9.41.300, and are consistent with this chapter. Such local ordinances shall have the same penalty as provided for by state law. Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistent with, more restrictive than, or exceed the requirements of state law shall not be enacted and are preempted and repealed, regardless of the nature of the code, charter, or home rule status of such city, town, county, or municipality.
    [1994 sp.s. c 7 § 428; 1985 c 428 § 1; 1983 c 232 § 12.]"

    ##########

    Suggested Action: Email webmaster@linktransit.com with a short but direct email - example follows:

    Dear Link Transit executives:

    I object to your recent ban on the open carry of firearms on the Link system because your action violates the Washington state constitution which provides that "The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired."

    Moreover, your regulation specifically violates long standing statutory law at RCW 9.41.290, State preemption; additionally, Link transit's new regulations banning open carry are NOT authorized by RCW 9.41.300.

    I'm telling you what I'm going to do - I'm going to open carry on linktransit.com every chance I get.

    Please let me know what YOU are going to do.

    Sincerely,

    YOUR NAME
    YOUR TOWN

    Doo you have a better link to this? it's one of these premium sites that doesnt give you everything. I'll have to go and target them online and demand they cease and desist this illegal action.

    I'd suggest a few of us go and OC but previous attempts have failed to get any meaningful interest. Shame really. They'll probably get away with this and we're going to let them.
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

    "Any and all restrictions on the bearing of arms in public places are nullified as per the Second Amendment"

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    Doo you have a better link to this? it's one of these premium sites that doesnt give you everything. I'll have to go and target them online and demand they cease and desist this illegal action.

    I'd suggest a few of us go and OC but previous attempts have failed to get any meaningful interest. Shame really. They'll probably get away with this and we're going to let them.
    If I lived there, I would OC on that transit system. Because I don't live there, getting arrested over there and going to court over there would cost me too much at this time.

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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Don't allow yourself to be taken. Don't answer to anyone. A right is a right and you don't have to explain yourself. Washington has no duty to retreat as far as I know so you have the right to defend yourself from all attempts at criminal behavior.

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    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

    "Any and all restrictions on the bearing of arms in public places are nullified as per the Second Amendment"

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    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    RCW 9.41.290
    State preemption.
    The state of Washington hereby fully occupies and preempts the entire field of firearms regulation within the boundaries of the state, including the registration, licensing, possession, purchase, sale, acquisition, transfer, discharge, and transportation of firearms, or any other element relating to firearms or parts thereof, including ammunition and reloader components. Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities may enact only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law, as in RCW 9.41.300, and are consistent with this chapter. Such local ordinances shall have the same penalty as provided for by state law. Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistent with, more restrictive than, or exceed the requirements of state law shall not be enacted and are preempted and repealed, regardless of the nature of the code, charter, or home rule status of such city, town, county, or municipality.


    RCW 35.58.272
    Public transportation systems—Definitions.
    "Municipality" as used in *RCW 35.58.272 through 35.58.279, as now or hereafter amended, and in RCW 36.57.080, 36.57.100, 36.57.110, 35.58.2721, 35.58.2794, and chapter 36.57A RCW, means any metropolitan municipal corporation which shall have been authorized to perform the function of metropolitan public transportation; any county performing the public transportation function as authorized by RCW 36.57.100 and 36.57.110 or which has established a county transportation authority pursuant to chapter 36.57 RCW; any public transportation benefit area established pursuant to chapter 36.57A RCW; and any city, which is not located within the boundaries of a metropolitan municipal corporation unless provided otherwise in RCW 35.21.925 and 36.73.180, county transportation authority, or public transportation benefit area, and which owns, operates or contracts for the services of a publicly owned or operated system of transportation: PROVIDED, That the term "municipality" shall mean in respect to any county performing the public transportation function pursuant to RCW 36.57.100 and 36.57.110 only that portion of the unincorporated area lying wholly within such unincorporated transportation benefit area.

    About Link Transit

    In October of 1988 a group of Wenatchee's political and business leaders met together at the request of the Wenatchee Downtown Association to talk about the possibility of bringing public transit to the area. The response that day, to many people's surprise, was total enthusiasm! Those present talked about helping senior citizens, advancing tourism, and linking the communities together. It was the beginning step in the process of forming a public transit system.

    A Special Transit Conference was held on March 14, 1989, and elected officials passed a resolution declaring the need for a two-county transit system. On November 21, 1989, after a series of public meetings, officials created a Public Transportation Benefit Area (PTBA), as authorized by Chapter 36.57A RCW. The original PTBA boundaries included all of Chelan County and the Eastmont and Waterville school districts in Douglas County.

    On September 18, 1990, voters within the Public Transportation Benefit Area (PTBA) approved the sales tax increase with 54 percent of the vote. The new Chelan Douglas Public Transportation System was set-up with funding by a four-tenths of one- percent local sales tax, along with a sixty-three percent match from the Motor Vehicle Excise Tax.

    In 1996, the voters in Douglas County Orondo School District area voted to annex into the PTBA increasing Link's service area to 3,500 square miles.

    By their own admission, they are a municipality and thus are subject to state preemption. They have no authority to create any rules or regulations that are contrary to or more restrictive then established state law. These new rules/regulation are preempted and repealed at their inception, thus null and void. If anyone is arrested and charged, then sue. Plain and simple.
    Armed and annoyingly well informed!

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    If I was in the area I'd ignore it and ride anyway openly carrying.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    If I was in the area I'd ignore it and ride anyway openly carrying.
    I'd join you if I was in the area.

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    Regular Member Animalou812's Avatar
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    I can see the Cincinnati street car banning people with firearms. This is something I would be glad to stand up to.

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    The link to the board packet with the resolution banning open carry.

    It's humorous, really. They specifically allow firearms to be carried in manners " . . . not otherwise prohibited by law." Then further down they cut-and-pasted the 9.41.270 language, then right below that is the new language banning open carry.

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    Hit their Facebook page, as I have.

    https://www.facebook.com/LinkTransit

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Animalou812 View Post
    I can see the Cincinnati street car banning people with firearms. This is something I would be glad to stand up to.
    They could certainly try it, anyway!

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    Off body carrying not allowed

    I was browsing through the Link Transit website & found the following:

    Bags or luggage which riders bring on board may not contain any harmful or potentially dangerous substances such as fuel, explosives,corrosive materials, loaded weapons, etc. even if they are in a proper carrying container.
    Source: Link Transit Carry-On Policy

    Link Transit needs to be notified about RCW 9.91.025 Unlawful Transit Conduct

    In particular, they should look at (1)(f):

    (1) A person is guilty of unlawful transit conduct if, while on or in a transit vehicle or in or at a transit station, he or she knowingly: (f) Carries any flammable liquid, explosive, acid, or other article or material likely to cause harm to others, except that nothing herein prevents a person from carrying a cigarette, cigar, or pipe lighter or carrying a firearm or ammunition in a way that is not otherwise prohibited by law
    Last edited by mnrobitaille; 02-20-2016 at 04:49 AM. Reason: Added RCW 9.91.025 info

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    Quote Originally Posted by mnrobitaille View Post
    Link Transit needs to be notified about RCW 9.91.025 Unlawful Transit Conduct
    Who is this mythical 'someone' to whom you refer to who needs to notify Link Transit???
    Why not notify them yourself?

    Your rights are only as good as the rights of others you defend.
    Last edited by JoeArc; 02-23-2016 at 12:56 AM.

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    If I was in the area I'd ignore it and ride anyway openly carrying.
    Now I believe I, and a few of my well armed friends, will be at the Wenatchee State park in a few months. I think we need to do a "field trip" that will require a "mass transit" route. Anyone want to travel with me?
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeArc View Post
    Who is this mythical 'someone' to whom you refer to who needs to notify Link Transit???
    Why not notify them yourself?

    Your rights are only as good as the rights of others you defend.
    Most municipalities will only listen to those that actually use their services. I rarely go to Wenatchee, also I rarely use any form of mass transit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mnrobitaille View Post
    Most municipalities will only listen to those that actually use their services. I rarely go to Wenatchee, also I rarely use any form of mass transit.
    While I would agree that locus standii is required to bring suit against the municipality, writing a simple letter does not.

    As a citizen within the state of Washington and someone who is concerned with the incorrect application of firearm laws in excess of legal authority - which Link Transit appears to be in violation - good citizenship demands that you, as a good neighbor, nicely point this out so that there isn't any confusion. That you would hate to waste Washingtonian taxpayer dollars - which you pay - if and when someone with standing does bring suit on an already settled and clear application of the law.

    Of course, taking the path of ' they aren't taking MY rights away, so it doesn't impact me' is a common approach to rights, so I understand the, albeit completely illogical, point of view.

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    Regular Member hadji's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    Now I believe I, and a few of my well armed friends, will be at the Wenatchee State park in a few months. I think we need to do a "field trip" that will require a "mass transit" route. Anyone want to travel with me?
    Yes.
    hadji
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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    If I was in the area I'd ignore it and ride anyway openly carrying.
    Same here...

    And since this is in the home of the Annual OC Campout, there might just be some fun happenings...
    Live Free or Die!

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    Now I believe I, and a few of my well armed friends, will be at the Wenatchee State park in a few months. I think we need to do a "field trip" that will require a "mass transit" route. Anyone want to travel with me?
    I wonder how many routes they have?
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    A friend of mine is a bus driver for them. He says the most popular bus route is between Wenache and Leavenworth.
    Last edited by phoneguy; 02-06-2017 at 12:10 AM.

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    I followed the link to their facebook. Only found two comments relating to this and the only answer from Transit was thank you for your comment.
    Chuck Norris/Ted Nugent That's the ticket for 2016!

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    Well it appears Link Transit has dug their heels in on this, today . . . :

    Click image for larger version. 

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  23. #23
    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
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    Send this over to SAF. This is low hanging fruit that they can sort out quick and cheap with a single legal letter.

    https://www.saf.org/contact-us-2/
    Last edited by Alpine; 02-07-2017 at 12:17 AM.

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanf View Post
    Well it appears Link Transit has dug their heels in on this, today . . . :

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Capture.jpg 
Views:	118 
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    Yep,SVG and myself had a little fun yesterday.
    https://www.facebook.com/LinkTransit...86437639089035
    Live Free or Die!

  25. #25
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Yep,SVG and myself had a little fun yesterday.
    https://www.facebook.com/LinkTransit...86437639089035
    Looking forward to future reports! (on OCDO, of course)

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