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Thread: PolitiFact claims VCDL President is WRONG

  1. #1
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    PolitiFact claims VCDL President is WRONG

    Philip Van Cleave wrongly says Martin Luther King Jr. was a Republican
    On the birthday of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., gun rights supporters rallied on the state Capitol grounds against efforts to tighten firearm restrictions.

    Philip Van Cleave, president of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, which organized the rally, disparaged the Democratic Party as the party of gun control. He then uttered what he said was a little-known fact:

    "We’re here on a holiday, and this holiday is Martin Luther King’s birthday, right? Somebody who fought for civil rights to bring people to be equal," Van Cleave said. "Let me ask you a question. What party was he with? He was a Republican."

    That was news to us. We decided to investigate.
    PolitiFact is a Progressive group pretending to be fair and unbiased.

  2. #2
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    OMG!! Philip forgot to say "today celebrates MLK's birthday." Oh, no!! Tens of thousands have been deceived! Thousands more will die in senseless wars based on the misstatement! Millions will be misled into paying billions in unnecessary taxes!

    /sarcasm

    What a bunch of losers at Politifacts. Why don't they find some real falsehoods to expose.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  3. #3
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    I think he was black .... you figure out who I am referencing

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    Seriously, though, gun control was originally implemented to keep Black folks from having the means to defend themselves, and re-instituted in California for the same reason (by a Republican administration, R.Reagan Governor - see the movie, "Panther", which was actually fairly accurate historically); the Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act of 1968 included some controls on governmental surveillance (all of which have been gutted, by the way), but also included provisions (the Gun Control Act) designed to keep those scary black folks from having firearms. I've read a lot of what Saint Martin Luther King Jr. wrote (reading his collected sermons would be edifying for anyone regardless of religious perspective), and I don't think he ever said anything about personal defense, one way or another. But you can't ignore the right to personal defense when you're celebrating the struggle for civil rights for all citizens.

    Click this link to watch: "Panther" movie on YouTube; if they can take away anyone's right to self-defense, they can take away everyone's right to self-defense.
    Last edited by user; 01-28-2016 at 09:45 AM.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    The Democrat and Republican parties in Washington, D.C., have zero faithfulness to the U.S. Constitution and zero respect for the citizens' inalienable rights. Based on this fact MLK was neither a Democrat or Republican.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Seriously, though, gun control was originally implemented to keep Black folks from having the means to defend themselves, and re-instituted in California for the same reason (by a Republican administration, R.Reagan Governor - see the movie, "Panther", which was actually fairly accurate historically); the Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act of 1968 included some controls on governmental surveillance (all of which have been gutted, by the way), but also included provisions (the Gun Control Act) designed to keep those scary black folks from having firearms. I've read a lot of what Saint Martin Luther King Jr. wrote (reading his collected sermons would be edifying for anyone regardless of religious perspective), and I don't think he ever said anything about personal defense, one way or another. But you can't ignore the right to personal defense when you're celebrating the struggle for civil rights for all citizens.

    Click this link to watch: "Panther" movie on YouTube; if they can take away anyone's right to self-defense, they can take away everyone's right to self-defense.
    I keep this link bookmarked for just such occasions as this!

    TFred

    Nonviolence: The Only Road to Freedom
    Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. - May 4, 1966

    "There are many people who very honestly raise the question of self-defense. This must be placed in perspective. It goes without saying that people will protect their homes. This is a right guaranteed by the Constitution and respected even in the worst areas of the South. But the mere protection of one’s home and person against assault by lawless night riders does not provide any positive approach to the fears and conditions which produce violence. There must be some program for establishing law. Our experience in places like Savannah and Macon, Georgia, has been that a drive which registers African Americanes to vote can do more to provide protection of the law and respect for African Americanes by even racist sheriffs than anything we have seen."

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    Asymmetrical Warfare

    Here is PolitiFact again - helping a gun-hating group with a rating of TRUE

    Gun control group says since 1963 more Americans have died by firearms than in all U.S. wars
    "Since John F. Kennedy was assassinated in 1963, more Americans have died by gunfire within our own country than American servicemen and women who were killed in all our wars."

    — Virginia Center for Public Safety on Monday, January 18th, 2016 in a rally flier

    Our ruling

    So we rate the claim True.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    O.K.

    I really am trying to be nice, but we really are in duct tape territory here.

    What difference does this make to gun freedom, a democrat gun grabber or a republican gun rights compromiser?

    I mean look what the compromisers did today, giving away gun rights to resore out of state P4P, sheesh!!!


    I mean really Philip, why do you kiss the feet of the no principle freedom haters that give away gun rights?
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    O.K.

    I really am trying to be nice, but we really are in duct tape territory here.

    What difference does this make to gun freedom, a democrat gun grabber or a republican gun rights compromiser?

    I mean look what the compromisers did today, giving away gun rights to resore out of state P4P, sheesh!!!


    I mean really Philip, why do you kiss the feet of the no principle freedom haters that give away gun rights?
    Does that mean you won't be renewing your membership after all?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    I mean look what the compromisers did today, giving away gun rights to resore out of state P4P, sheesh!!!
    Not that I have any direct stake in it, but I suspect the reason for the governor's reversal, and for those who supported the compromise, had a lot more to do with protecting the ability of Virginia's citizens to carry in several States that were about to drop recognition for Virginia's permits, than it did with out-of-Staters carrying in Virginia.

    The biggest problem with the compromise--as I understand it--is not that those under protective order for domestic violence can't get a permit, it is that it may have the potential to take the wind out of the sails of efforts for a permanent fix beyond the AG's reach, and among some gun owners to replace any politician who stands in the way of such permanent fixes. If everyone angry about the off limits government buildings, and everyone upset about loss of recognition of permits, and everyone upset about whatever else all vote against the AG and Gov and bad legislators, you get real change. If too many are placated, that gets to be more difficult.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    Maybe Charles ... but to get an actual answer from the guy you would have to call him.

    Anyone have his home telephone # .. the one by his bed.

    Generally, the higher ranking a gov't official is, the later I call 'em. I figure he would be a 0300hrs contact time person.

    Don't worry .. they love it !

  12. #12
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Does that mean you won't be renewing your membership after all?
    I do not know what the VCDL position is yet. It is not scored on the VCDL 2016 Legislative Tracking Tool. In the long run this sort of compromise rewards gun grabbers bad behavior.

    Don't misunderstand me, I would love to keep reciprocity with Florida where I visit frequently to see my father. I have a CHP so that I can carry there, as open carry is outlawed in Florida. I would however, rather endure the hassle and expense of getting a Florida permit, than teach the gun grabbers how to chip away at our gun rights through executive action hostage taking.

    The real danger of the voluntary background checks at gun shows is the destruction of the interstate commerce justification that underpins all of the Gun Control Act. The VA State Police, like private sales between 2 VA residents, is not interstate commerce. As of now only dealers are engaged in interstate commerce. This will have very bad long term results for Virginia gun collectors and gun shows.

    Thundar
    Last edited by Thundar; 01-29-2016 at 07:27 AM.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  13. #13
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    "Since John F. Kennedy was assassinated in 1963, more Americans have died by gunfire within our own country than American servicemen and women who were killed in all our wars."

    — Virginia Center for Public Safety on Monday, January 18th, 2016 in a rally flier

    Our ruling

    So we rate the claim True.
    Within, say, the last three weeks, I came across the datum that police shoot an average of just less than one person a day in this country. If true, then a fast way to reduce gun deaths according to the Virginia Center for Public Safety's thinking would be to disarm police.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  14. #14
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    (1) I reckon that means that Philip's been "discredited", so now the anti-gun-nuts can go around referring to "Discredited VCDL Leader Philip Van Cleave".

    (2) There was a seminal case in which Georgia (which had domestic tire manufacturers) attempted to levy a tax on tires made out of state (i.e., from Ohio), and this was held to be a burden on interstate commerce, and since Congress occupies the field in that area, no state can interfere that way. Now that statute that creates gun-free school zones ("jus' like shootin' fish in a bar'l") goes to great lengths to say that everything involving firearms affects interstate commerce, so no one can really argue with that point. So for Virginia to create legislation that requires the VSP to offer optional background checks at gun shows to Virginia residents wishing to perform a purely intrastate transaction that affects interstate commerce without Congressional authorization is a burden on Interstate commerce. Such legislation is automatically void as beyond the limits of Virginia's powers under the Constitution..
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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