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Thread: The Reciprocity Restoration Deal

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    The Reciprocity Restoration Deal

    Splitting out discussion on this apart from the other threads.

    I find it interesting to note that one of the bills cited as a part of "the deal," (HB 1386 Firearms shows; voluntary background checks by Department of State Police. - Lingamfelter), was, according to LIS, filed on January 22nd - nearly a WEEK before the announcement was made.

    This was also well before SB 175 Concealed handgun permits; sharing of information. - Stuart, passed the full Senate with what appears to be a veto-proof margin. Remember, last year, McAuliffe vetoed a very similar bill, citing the safety of out-of-state police officers. (Never minding of course that permit holders are more law abiding than non-permit holders!)

    Methinks there has been quite a bit of back-room collusion going on here - and for quite some time!

    TFred

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I don't click links that I can't see, especially with no explanation.

    In this day and age, one would be foolish to do so.

    Grow up.

    TFred

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    I don't click links that I can't see, especially with no explanation.

    In this day and age, one would be foolish to do so.

    Grow up.

    TFred
    No guts, no gory.

    Do you really want a more groan up davidmcbeth? OK - I'll go sit in the corner now.

    Indeed there is more to the reciprocity thing than meets the eye.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    I don't click links that I can't see, especially with no explanation.

    In this day and age, one would be foolish to do so.

    Grow up.

    TFred
    You did good. It is racist nonsense thinly veiled in Star Wars action clip. If trolls are not QUOTED then we don't have to see them.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    You did good. It is racist nonsense thinly veiled in Star Wars action clip. If trolls are not QUOTED then we don't have to see them.
    You know, I did think about that, and will consider it more carefully in the future.

    We can block users so we don't see their posts... I WISH there was a way to block users from posting on threads that one starts as well!

    TFred

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    One of the better articles covering the announcement this afternoon.

    TFred

    Virginia General Assembly passes gun safety deal

    The gun safety deal encompasses the following bills:

    Voluntary Background Checks at Firearms Shows: Delegate Lingamfelter (HB1386) and Senator Edwards (SB715)
    ◾Currently, only firearms dealers with a federal firearms license (FFL) can access the National Instant Checks System (NICS) to perform background checks on firearms purchases/transfers.
    ◾The Virginia State Police cannot access the system on behalf of private citizens selling or transferring firearms.
    ◾This bill would give the Virginia State Police statutory authority to perform background checks on behalf of private citizens at firearms shows, which is required by the FBI.
    ◾Private sellers feel it is their civic duty to obtain the results of a background check prior to selling or transferring a firearm and they currently do not have the ability to access background checks for this purpose. This would allow them access on voluntary cases.
    ◾This bill requires the Virginia State Police to be present at every firearms show in the Commonwealth to perform background checks on a voluntary basis.

    Protective orders: Delegate Murphy and Senator Howell
    ◾Currently, a person subject to a protective order is prohibited from purchasing or transporting a firearm, but not from possessing a firearm.
    ◾This bill would prohibit a person subject to a permanent protective order from possessing a firearm for the duration of the order.
    ◾Permanent protective orders are issued by a judge and are served to the subject. They can last up to 2 years and can be extended by the judge as necessary.
    ◾This bill allows the subject of the protective order 24 hours to transfer or sell the firearm to a non-prohibited person. The subject of the protective order may possess or transport the firearm during that 24-hour period only for the purposes of selling or transferring the firearm.
    ◾If a person violates this section, they could be guilty of a class 6 felony.

    Reciprocity: Delegate Webert (HB1163) and Senator Reeves (SB610)
    ◾Reciprocity for all states with a concealed carry permitting process.
    ◾Prevents state-shopping. If a person has ever been revoked in Virginia, they cannot go to another state to get a permit and have that permit be recognized in Virginia.
    ◾Retains the 24-hour verification clause for law enforcement purposes which allows the VSP or other law enforcement agencies to verify the validity of a permit for an out-of-state person 24 hours a day when states that offer that process. Permit-holders must carry another valid state-issued ID for the purpose of verification.
    ◾Governor McAuliffe will also extend the effective date for the planned implementation of the revocation of reciprocity agreements with other states to March 1st.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Splitting out discussion on this apart from the other threads.

    I find it interesting to note that one of the bills cited as a part of "the deal," (HB 1386 Firearms shows; voluntary background checks by Department of State Police. - Lingamfelter), was, according to LIS, filed on January 22nd - nearly a WEEK before the announcement was made.....

    TFred
    Regarding this. What happens if the State Police don't show up, or are late to the show? Is the show closed down until such time as they arrive? Just wondering, the wording of this bill is that they WILL BE at the show to do background checks. So what happens if they aren't?
    Last edited by drewf; 01-29-2016 at 04:09 PM.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drewf View Post
    Regarding this. What happens if the State Police don't show up, or are late to the show? Is the show closed down until such time as they arrive? Just wondering, the wording of this bill is that they WILL BE at the show to do background checks. So what happens if they aren't?
    I already sent a note to PVC pointing this out. The bill needs to be changed so that as long as the promoter fulfills their requirement, the VSP suddenly deciding not to show up should not shut down the gun show!

    TFred

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    Parker and Goddard are whining

    Not winning, whining. I wonder if it's a trick?

    Andy Parker, Colin Goddard, etc. Blast Gov. McAuliffe as a "leader who has shown the greatest courage...until today"
    Dear Governor McAuliffe,

    You have been a leader who has shown the greatest courage on this issue and been an inspiration to so many of us.

    Until today.

    This deal is a dangerous rollback that puts public safety at risk.

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    I don't see how they're going to be able to handle that stuff, anyway. That proposal opens all sorts of cans of worms, not the least of which is, who's going to fund it? A "reasonable fee" is still two bucks, I think, because that's already set as a matter of law. And if it isn't two bucks, suppose someone doesn't want to pay whatever they're charging? Suppose someone starts the process and then changes his mind and doesn't want to have to wait for results. "Oh, forget it, let's just go out into the parking lot and do a bill of sale form." - what're the troopers going to do about it? And if they charge too much, why should anyone "opt" for the background check? Who'd want to do that, anyway? People I've bought guns from are generally apologetic about asking to see my ID and CHP. And if I were buying a gun and Seller wants me to do a background check, I'd say, "Fine, but the fee comes out of your pocket."
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    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    McAwful's Press Release

    See the bold statement:

    Governor McAuliffe Announces Historic, Bipartisan Gun Safety Deal
    Governor McAuliffe announced a historic, bipartisan deal that will keep guns away from domestic abusers and people who cannot pass background checks. The Governor was joined by Speaker Howell, Lt. Governor Ralph Northam and other members of the General Assembly while making the announcement.

    “This bipartisan deal to keep guns out of the hands of domestic abusers and people who cannot pass background checks will save lives,” said Governor McAuliffe. “Give and take is essential to every negotiation, but the balance of this deal changes Virginia law permanently in ways that will keep guns away from people who would use them for harm. I want to thank all of the leaders who put politics aside and stood up for this bipartisan compromise to make our families safer.”

    Today’s announced deal will pave the way for the first meaningful steps on preventing gun violence in 23 years.
    In other words, since Doug Wilder was Governor. Sell Out by Howell.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Repeater View Post
    Not winning, whining. I wonder if it's a trick?

    Andy Parker, Colin Goddard, etc. Blast Gov. McAuliffe as a "leader who has shown the greatest courage...until today"
    Dear Governor McAuliffe,

    You have been a leader who has shown the greatest courage on this issue and been an inspiration to so many of us.

    Until today.

    This deal is a dangerous rollback that puts public safety at risk.
    This tells me two things:

    1. Parker, Goddard, etc, are True Believers. (ETA: That's not a compliment!)
    2. McAuliffe is a politician, willing to exploit True Believers, or turn his back on them, in order to advance his career.

    TFred
    Last edited by TFred; 01-29-2016 at 04:59 PM.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    I don't see how they're going to be able to handle that stuff, anyway. That proposal opens all sorts of cans of worms, not the least of which is, who's going to fund it? A "reasonable fee" is still two bucks, I think, because that's already set as a matter of law. And if it isn't two bucks, suppose someone doesn't want to pay whatever they're charging? Suppose someone starts the process and then changes his mind and doesn't want to have to wait for results. "Oh, forget it, let's just go out into the parking lot and do a bill of sale form." - what're the troopers going to do about it? And if they charge too much, why should anyone "opt" for the background check? Who'd want to do that, anyway? People I've bought guns from are generally apologetic about asking to see my ID and CHP. And if I were buying a gun and Seller wants me to do a background check, I'd say, "Fine, but the fee comes out of your pocket."
    I read in one of the reports that McAuliffe is adding $100,000 to the budget to cover the costs. I don't remember where I saw it.

    TFred

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    Regular Member glockfan's Avatar
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    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...dc6_story.html

    WAPO says that McAulful "and his secretary of public safety, furious because negotiators had agreed to portray the deal as a win for all sides, told Republicans Friday morning that the deal was off."

    So Republicans agreed "to raise the penalty for possession of a gun by someone subject to a two-year protective order, upping it from a misdemeanor to a felony. And the gun-safety side agreed to make sure the attorney general, who would be directed by the deal to enter into reciprocity agreements with every state that offers them, moves quickly on the agreement. The plan now would require him to do so within 60 days"

    The VA State Police website has been changed only to say the reciprocity ban takes place on 1 March instead of 1 February.

    Are we done with this now or more tricks and nonsense yet to come?

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    Quote Originally Posted by glockfan View Post
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...dc6_story.html

    WAPO says that McAulful "and his secretary of public safety, furious because negotiators had agreed to portray the deal as a win for all sides, told Republicans Friday morning that the deal was off."

    So Republicans agreed "to raise the penalty for possession of a gun by someone subject to a two-year protective order, upping it from a misdemeanor to a felony. And the gun-safety side agreed to make sure the attorney general, who would be directed by the deal to enter into reciprocity agreements with every state that offers them, moves quickly on the agreement. The plan now would require him to do so within 60 days"

    The VA State Police website has been changed only to say the reciprocity ban takes place on 1 March instead of 1 February.

    Are we done with this now or more tricks and nonsense yet to come?
    Next year or the next, the rationale will be:

    State police have been on hand at gun shows to perform reasonable, common-sense voluntary backround checks. It is not a big imposition to require all gun sales at gun shows to have a back round check. Given how successful the voluntary program has been, only criminals would object to making it mandatory.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockfan View Post
    Gun-safety activists decry Virginia governor’s ‘gift to the gun lobby’

    WAPO says that McAulful "and his secretary of public safety, furious because negotiators had agreed to portray the deal as a win for all sides, told Republicans Friday morning that the deal was off."

    So Republicans agreed "to raise the penalty for possession of a gun by someone subject to a two-year protective order, upping it from a misdemeanor to a felony. And the gun-safety side agreed to make sure the attorney general, who would be directed by the deal to enter into reciprocity agreements with every state that offers them, moves quickly on the agreement. The plan now would require him to do so within 60 days"

    The VA State Police website has been changed only to say the reciprocity ban takes place on 1 March instead of 1 February.

    Are we done with this now or more tricks and nonsense yet to come?
    I don't know if this article is truth or propaganda, but it sure is a good read!

    TFred

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    The reciprocity deal between McAuliffe and Republicans

    "There is a lot of misinformation from the media and elsewhere and a lot of people are coming to the wrong conclusions about what the deal does and doesn’t do. Rumors are flying that gun owners only get back the reciprocity that was taken away by Herring and the State Police - that is FALSE. We have gained important ground!"

    http://www.listbox.com/member/archiv...-617BF010038B/
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    Regular Member glockfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    The reciprocity deal between McAuliffe and Republicans

    http://www.listbox.com/member/archiv...-617BF010038B/
    I'd like User to give his opinion on how the State Police "gun show" background check is any better than the form he offers on his website?

    (http://www.virginialegaldefense.com/...ransferBOS.pdf)

    VCDL has said, " There is a carrot: if a background check is run, the seller receives some special legal protections that are currently not available for private sales. If a background check is not run, you don’t have any more or any less legal protections than under current law."

    Since there's no Federal form 4473 the transferred firearm will still trace back to the last FFL.

    Personally I will still go through an FFL 'cause I want my name OFF the gun.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    This is not a deal it is a cave and a sellout.

    We should not give up anything to those that take gun rights and even P4P hostage. The talk about the Virginia way is nothing but bilge pumping. McAwful gets a reward for screwing gun owners. What does this teach the gun grabbers?
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    gun show noose

    There is no such tbing as a gun show loophole, but McAwful is delivering a gun show noose for us. Federal gun laws, incluxing the Gun Control Act of 1968 derive their constitutional power crom the interstate commerce clause. The Commonwealth does not engage in and cannot regulate most interstate commerce. In order for this voluntary gun show background system to work the Virginia State Police and the FBI must find a way for the Virginia State Police to engage in the business and regulate the interstate commerce of firearms. After the collusion of the VSP in the recprocity debacle, does anybody trust that VSP will not again harm gun owners?
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Activist Member Wolf_shadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    There is no such tbing as a gun show loophole, but McAwful is delivering a gun show noose for us. Federal gun laws, incluxing the Gun Control Act of 1968 derive their constitutional power crom the interstate commerce clause. The Commonwealth does not engage in and cannot regulate most interstate commerce. In order for this voluntary gun show background system to work the Virginia State Police and the FBI must find a way for the Virginia State Police to engage in the business and regulate the interstate commerce of firearms. After the collusion of the VSP in the recprocity debacle, does anybody trust that VSP will not again harm gun owners?
    I may be wrong and a VA FFL can chime in, but my understanding is that a VA FFL goes through the VSP not to the NCIC like FFL's in some states do.
    Yes I carry a Bible and a Gun, your point.
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    My gut tells me that this shiite sandwich is a done deal since vcdl is telling us how great a deal it is and how great it tastes. . I would urge everyone to boycott the voluntary checks so that they can be easily eliminated in a few years after they are proven a waste of resources from lack of use.
    Last edited by 67GT390FB; 01-30-2016 at 11:47 AM.

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    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 67GT390FB View Post
    My gut tells me that this shiite sandwich is a done deal since vcdl is telling us how great a deal it is and how great it tastes. . I would urge everyone to boycott the voluntary checks so that they can be easily eliminated in a few years after they are proven a waste of resources from lack of use.
    AGREED !!!

    Don't use them, they're VOLUNTARY. If we don't make use of them then they'll have NO reason to come back to us in a couple of years and say "They're such a success we're going to make them mandatory"
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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scouser View Post
    AGREED !!!

    Don't use them, they're VOLUNTARY. If we don't make use of them then they'll have NO reason to come back to us in a couple of years and say "They're such a success we're going to make them mandatory"
    The first time a transaction is denied in the voluntary system there will be a HUGE press to make them mandatory.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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