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Thread: Why did wi legislature exempt police officers only?

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    Why did wi legislature exempt police officers only?

    The Wisconsin state legislature, maybe not all of them, believes that Wisconsinites who exercise our second amendment rights are a danger to the public because we have not been trained in the art of shooting our handgun often enough to be an accurate marksman. I would agree that we have not been trained in police tactics to apprehend criminals or use the PIT maneuver to stop speeders etc... but we do realize that if and when we are in a situation where we have to defend ourselves with a handgun, are responsible for every bullet that exits the barrel and what it hits. Police are no exception to accidental/irresponsible shooting where innocent bystanders are wounded or killed.

    Now do each one of us have to prove to our legislature that we are competent shooters? I am wondering if SB589 is to make it to the governor's desk, someone will add an attachment that we qualify ourselves before an accredited firearms instructor, before the bill will be voted on. Just wondering...

    Examples of COPS injuring bystanders

    https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/who...ermit-holders/

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    And , pray-tell, do you think that marksmanship is a point in favor of policemen , 'cause they suuuuccck.

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    Question

    --snip--

    Now do each one of us have to prove to our legislature that we are competent shooters? I am wondering if SB589 is to make it to the governor's desk, someone will add an attachment that we qualify ourselves before an accredited firearms instructor, before the bill will be voted on. Just wondering...

    Does anyone know exactly how much training the (presumably) Academy provides each police recruit during training?
    I suspect that many here get much more as we have this as an interest, not just a job requirement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Contrarian View Post
    --snip--

    Now do each one of us have to prove to our legislature that we are competent shooters? I am wondering if SB589 is to make it to the governor's desk, someone will add an attachment that we qualify ourselves before an accredited firearms instructor, before the bill will be voted on. Just wondering...

    Does anyone know exactly how much training the (presumably) Academy provides each police recruit during training?
    I suspect that many here get much more as we have this as an interest, not just a job requirement.
    Have them all line up 50 ft away and hold targets ...?

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    Why? Because they are exempted from nearly all laws at this point... it's now standard practice to exempt cops from any law coming through any congress now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    The Wisconsin state legislature, maybe not all of them, believes that Wisconsinites who exercise our second amendment rights are a danger to the public because we have not been trained in the art of shooting our handgun often enough to be an accurate marksman. I would agree that we have not been trained in police tactics to apprehend criminals or use the PIT maneuver to stop speeders etc... but we do realize that if and when we are in a situation where we have to defend ourselves with a handgun, are responsible for every bullet that exits the barrel and what it hits. Police are no exception to accidental/irresponsible shooting where innocent bystanders are wounded or killed.

    Now do each one of us have to prove to our legislature that we are competent shooters? I am wondering if SB589 is to make it to the governor's desk, someone will add an attachment that we qualify ourselves before an accredited firearms instructor, before the bill will be voted on. Just wondering...

    Examples of COPS injuring bystanders

    https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/who...ermit-holders/
    Because they are a separate class of citizen. As the saying goes, everyone is equal, some are just more equal than others.
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    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

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    Quote Originally Posted by Contrarian View Post
    Does anyone know exactly how much training the (presumably) Academy provides each police recruit during training?
    HERE is the current standard. Notice that it says that recruits, active officers and retirees wishing to carry are REQUIRED to pass this course at least once per year. This is contrary to what some others have posted on these forums. These standards are not "suggestions" but mandates from DOJ Training & Standards. Individual departments can have additional training as well, but to supplement, not replace this course. The state requires only once per year. The current department I'm on requires twice per year plus 2 other firearm related trainings (on top of the 24 hours of inservice). The agency I retired from required qualifying 4 times per year.

    Every officer I know is also required by their agency to go to more advanced training that includes air soft, simunition, shoot house, active shooter, etc., etc.. Those trainings are actually more dynamic and real world than simply shooting at a non-moving paper target.

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    Why did WI legislature exempt police officers only?

    Rhetorical question?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Why did WI legislature exempt police officers only?

    Rhetorical question?
    Bring out the Only Ones apologists.

    Read the 'standard', it is quite entertaining.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Bring out the Only Ones apologists.

    Read the 'standard', it is quite entertaining.
    Quite.

    When there are no criminal consequences for your actions what need is there for skill.

    example: Distracted driving. In California, a cop killed a citizen due to his distracted driving by looking down at a laptop PC. No charges filed against him...he is exempt. We, on the other hand...

    Every state has these types of exemptions in the laws.

    Thus, being a good shot and being held to account for each one of your rounds down range do not apply to any cop, anywhere. We on the other hand...
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Just curious as I really don't know, do officers pay out of pocket for their training and qualifying sessions and ammo used during training or do we generous taxpayers foot that bill? Comes out of the dept. budget?

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    Most agencies pay for ammo used in on duty training.

    A lot of departments require retirees to pay for their own

    Requirements on who pays can vary widely .
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    Doop de doop de derp. Here comes Don Quixote's Rocinante.

    Cervantes describes Don Quijote's choice of name: nombre a su parecer alto, sonoro y significativo de lo que había sido cuando fue rocín, antes de lo que ahora era, que era antes y primero de todos los rocines del mundo, "a name, to his thinking, lofty, sonorous, and significant of his condition -- as a hack before he became what he now was, the first and foremost of all the hacks in the world"
    Last edited by Nightmare; 02-01-2016 at 06:56 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken56 View Post
    Just curious as I really don't know, do officers pay out of pocket for their training and qualifying sessions and ammo used during training or do we generous taxpayers foot that bill? Comes out of the dept. budget?
    All required training for active officers is a budget item. Why wouldn't it be? Elective training usually is not. If I want to go to training that is not mandated it'd be a rare thing that the department would pay for it.

    Every retiree that I know that carries using a cert card has to not only pay for their ammo they also have to pay a fee for the instructor, range, etc.. It's anywhere between $50-$100. The difference between carrying with a retiree certification card and carrying with a CCL is a retired officer has to qualify once a year to maintain the cert card. And he/she can only carry the weapons(s) qualified with which must be listed on the card. The advantage is the certification card is valid in all states and territories.

    If you don't like that active off duty and qualified retired officers can carry in all 50 states, Wisconsin is not who to get mad at. That's a federal law that creates a special class. It's a law I benefit from yet still oppose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    ... It's a law I benefit from yet still oppose.
    Benefit from, as in taking advantage of this privilege as you see fit? If, not, well done.

    If so, then your opposition rings hollow.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    All required training for active officers is a budget item. Why wouldn't it be? Elective training usually is not. If I want to go to training that is not mandated it'd be a rare thing that the department would pay for it.

    Every retiree that I know that carries using a cert card has to not only pay for their ammo they also have to pay a fee for the instructor, range, etc.. It's anywhere between $50-$100. The difference between carrying with a retiree certification card and carrying with a CCL is a retired officer has to qualify once a year to maintain the cert card. And he/she can only carry the weapons(s) qualified with which must be listed on the card. The advantage is the certification card is valid in all states and territories.

    If you don't like that active off duty and qualified retired officers can carry in all 50 states, Wisconsin is not who to get mad at. That's a federal law that creates a special class. It's a law I benefit from yet still oppose.
    I don't suppose I can apply for that certification?

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Benefit from, as in taking advantage of this privilege as you see fit? If, not, well done.

    If so, then your opposition rings hollow.
    I don't need it. After I retired I took a position with another agency so I'm still active.

    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    I don't suppose I can apply for that certification?
    Did you retire from a law enforcement agency in good standing? If not is this the part where you give me fecal matter over a law you don't like and I had nothing to do with it's passage?
    Last edited by pkbites; 02-02-2016 at 07:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    I don't suppose I can apply for that certification?

    What you can do is get your chief of police buddy to make you a reserve officer.

    Then take few years getting your Recruit schooling done.

    Then you can have the HR218 privilege.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    What you can do is get your chief of police buddy to make you a reserve officer.

    Then take few years getting your Recruit schooling done.

    Then you can have the HR218 privilege.
    Now that sounds great. have to wait for a few years and retire from my current job working at a cutting edge biotech company first.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    I don't need it. After I retired I took a position with another agency so I'm still active.



    Did you retire from a law enforcement agency in good standing? If not is this the part where you give me fecal matter over a law you don't like and I had nothing to do with it's passage?
    No. That law was passed secretly and quickly and signed by a governor who has claimed that we citizens also have constitutional rights in this case 2A which I am told shall not be infringed. However the feds too have created second class citizens which the state could have overruled. In the catechism of the constitution (1828), which should be used in civics in schools, question 35 states, and gives the answer: Q. 35. But if even the Congress itself should make a
    law which is contrary to the Constitution, must the
    people obey it?
    A. No.


    Did the governor and the legislature think about violating section 1 of the 14th amendment before he quietly/secretly signed the bill into law?? NO.
    We have yet to define regulation and infringement. I am not blaming you for any bad laws. If you forget everything else please remember that I have and always will stand behind our police officers except where they violate laws or dept policies. I have done this and am doing it for my friend Chief of Prescott and also by inviting him and them to my mom's home for coffee and meals while on duty. I will always help them out, including my sheriff and her deputies. So I do not hold a grudge against you.
    Last edited by Law abider; 02-03-2016 at 01:21 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    Now that sounds great. have to wait for a few years and retire from my current job working at a cutting edge biotech company first.
    Actual once your sworn in you have police powers. it just takes a couple of years part time to meet the minimum requirements.

    One always has to make choices.
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