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Thread: Fully Intended Consequence of Executive Order 50: 4-H Victimized by McAuliffe

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    Fully Intended Consequence of Executive Order 50: 4-H Victimized by McAuliffe

    The VCDL Alert from 2/1/16 (last night) had the story below. Anyone who thinks that this was an unintended consequence of McAuliffe and the anti-civil rights crowd of Virginia is fooling himself / herself. Killing the ability of families and their organizations to enjoy firearms and teach responsible gun handling is a core desire of the anti-civil rights crowd. The goal is to eliminate the possibility that people can freely shoot, train, and help others learn about responsible firearm ownership. EO50 may have made certain carve outs for hunting due to the restrictions provided by the Constitution of Virginia, Article XI, Section 4, but it gladly attacked all other aspects of gun ownership and use. Hunters beware, you're next.


    I received this email from member Baxter Stegall:

    I wanted to address a major issue that’s just been brought to my attention. I have spoken with a source who wishes not to be named due to fear of reprisal, who is heavily involved in the 4H programs in Virginia. The 4H program in 19 counties in Central Virginia utilize the Holiday Lake 4H Center at Holiday Lake State Park in Appomattox, VA. The 4H facility leases the land from the Virginia Department of Forestry, an executive agency.

    Last week, people came and posted No Guns signs around the 4H camp. As you well know, 4H is one of the biggest proponents of firearms safety for children, and the Holiday Lake facility hosts summer camps for childrens’ firearms sports, as well as tournaments and training throughout the year in support of the 4H firearms programs. These programs have effectively been shut down by the fallout from Governor McAulliffe’s Executive Order.

    I live in Nottoway, and both of my children have attended camp and programs at this facility. I want my children to participate in the firearms programs when they are old enough. The fact that this executive order has affected these programs causes me great consternation; I can think of few programs which effectively embrace teaching responsible firearms safety and competition to children.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    had a delightful conversation w/an individual, who would have knowledge of the situation, at holiday lake who provided me the following info:
    1. at the moment, "not to my knowledge"..."there has been nothing changed in our firearm program(s)." their comment was of course caveated w/a HOWEVER...
    2. the higher ups are off site for a conference
    3. mine was the third such call to be received today.
    4. if firearm usage changes, they were kind enough to say they would send me an email.

    when asked about signage was told they had not seen any.

    # called 434-248-5444

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    Last edited by solus; 02-02-2016 at 01:20 PM. Reason: correct misspelling
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    To me the loss of gun carry of any sort into state agency buildings and workplace facilities is of much greater importance than the loss of reciprocity for CHP holders. Open carry is perfectly legal and well accepted in Virginia, Virginia still offers non-resident CHPs for visitors who wish to afford themselves one at a very reasonable price for the exercise of the privilege, and Virginia still recognizes the Utah permit, which is widely recognized by other states as well. These are all options for outsiders who wish to conceal in Virginia.

    There is NO option for carry in state agency buildings and workplaces. None. Zero, zip, nada. NOTHING. It's nice that visitors wish to come to our state and visit, do business, and vacation. However, EO50 and its resulting regulation nixes carry in our own facilities that we pay for and wish to use as part of our daily lives. I appreciate that there is some focus on reciprocity, but as someone who actually lives here, I'd rather there be more focus on the stuff that actually affects people who live, work, and pay taxes here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    To me the loss of gun carry of any sort into state agency buildings and workplace facilities is of much greater importance than the loss of reciprocity for CHP holders. Open carry is perfectly legal and well accepted in Virginia, Virginia still offers non-resident CHPs for visitors who wish to afford themselves one at a very reasonable price for the exercise of the privilege, and Virginia still recognizes the Utah permit, which is widely recognized by other states as well. These are all options for outsiders who wish to conceal in Virginia.

    There is NO option for carry in state agency buildings and workplaces. None. Zero, zip, nada. NOTHING. It's nice that visitors wish to come to our state and visit, do business, and vacation. However, EO50 and its resulting regulation nixes carry in our own facilities that we pay for and wish to use as part of our daily lives. I appreciate that there is some focus on reciprocity, but as someone who actually lives here, I'd rather there be more focus on the stuff that actually affects people who live, work, and pay taxes here.
    Thanks for the shout out to support other state residents .. but you are 1000% right ... your gov't officials should be more focused on you. Perhaps they believe that the P4P benefits you outside the state?

    But on a scale, if one wishes to play the permission game, the RBKA inside state bldgs likely is more imperative than P4P.

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    Obviously, the 4H clubs are dangerous paramilitary organizations intent on radicalizing children from an early and impressionable age, and represent a threat to the security of The State. These quasi-military terrorist organizations must be suppressed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Obviously, the 4H clubs are dangerous paramilitary organizations intent on radicalizing children from an early and impressionable age, and represent a threat to the security of The State. These quasi-military terrorist organizations must be suppressed.
    Boy Scouts next. Why, they organize themselves into "patrols" and have "ranks". Are taught survival skills. Oh, and, um, sometimes receive instruction in firearms safety and use.
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    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    If you violate EO50, what statute are you charged with?

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    Quote Originally Posted by lockman View Post
    If you violate EO50, what statute are you charged with?
    Trespassing is the recommended charge. Trespassing in Virginia is a Class 1 Misdemeanor carrying up to a 12 month jail sentence and a $2500 fine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    To me the loss of gun carry of any sort into state agency buildings and workplace facilities is of much greater importance than the loss of reciprocity for CHP holders. Open carry is perfectly legal and well accepted in Virginia, Virginia still offers non-resident CHPs for visitors who wish to afford themselves one at a very reasonable price for the exercise of the privilege, and Virginia still recognizes the Utah permit, which is widely recognized by other states as well. These are all options for outsiders who wish to conceal in Virginia.

    There is NO option for carry in state agency buildings and workplaces. None. Zero, zip, nada. NOTHING. It's nice that visitors wish to come to our state and visit, do business, and vacation. However, EO50 and its resulting regulation nixes carry in our own facilities that we pay for and wish to use as part of our daily lives. I appreciate that there is some focus on reciprocity, but as someone who actually lives here, I'd rather there be more focus on the stuff that actually affects people who live, work, and pay taxes here.
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    Trespassing is the recommended charge. Trespassing in Virginia is a Class 1 Misdemeanor carrying up to a 12 month jail sentence and a $2500 fine.
    Wouldn't you still have to actually commit trespass, i.e. by ignoring a posted sign or refusing to leave when asked? EOs are not laws.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Agreed.



    Wouldn't you still have to actually commit trespass, i.e. by ignoring a posted sign or refusing to leave when asked? EOs are not laws.
    Of course you would. One would not be trespassing if one had not ignored the clearly posted sign when carrying or the restrictions of the published regulation.

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    Do gun buster signs in VA carry the weight of the law?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Do gun buster signs in VA carry the weight of the law?
    http://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/t...ction18.2-119/

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Do gun buster signs in VA carry the weight of the law?
    Arguably enough to railroad someone.

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    Regular Member glockfan's Avatar
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    How far can they go to enforce EO50 ? If you're at say, the DMV, can the rent a cop there demand to search you for a concealed weapon?

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    Quote Originally Posted by glockfan View Post
    How far can they go to enforce EO50 ? If you're at say, the DMV, can the rent a cop there demand to search you for a concealed weapon?
    CHP holders are allegedly the most law abiding people around. Why would they be carrying to care?

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    Regular Member glockfan's Avatar
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    Just for the sake of argument I don't think they can do any searches?

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    Quote Originally Posted by glockfan View Post
    How far can they go to enforce EO50 ? If you're at say, the DMV, can the rent a cop there demand to search you for a concealed weapon?
    It would be an illegal search in the opinion of this pleb.
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    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
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    Learnt something new about Virginia...thanks jmelvin.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Learnt something new about Virginia...thanks jmelvin.
    You're welcome. I would imagine that most states that don't formally criminalize carry past a "No Guns" sign in some specific way likely have a statute like this where any signage can be the catalyst for a trespassing charge.

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