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Thread: Open Carrier Robbed

  1. #1
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    Open Carrier Robbed


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    Well, if verified, that would make what? only the second time an OCer felonied against. Out of hundreds of thousands of man-hours of OC in the last nine years?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Bummer. Sounds like it should be filed in the same category as "Don't wear a shiny Rolex on the wrong side of town."
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Bummer. Sounds like it should be filed in the same category as "Don't wear a shiny Rolex on the wrong side of town."
    Sounds more like walking with head in the wrong place.
    Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 02-03-2016 at 06:34 AM.
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    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
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    I got one word for that: "situational awareness".
    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Can you say retention holster?

  7. #7
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Look at how the old cowboys wear their gun.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    I got one word for that: "situational awareness".
    +1 on the thought.

    Never knew an attorney to use one word when two would do just as well.
    Better to not open your mouth and be thought the fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    +1 on the thought.

    Never knew an attorney to use one word when two would do just as well.
    His website needs spiffied-up. It's boring, no pazazz, no pop. Where's the hook? Where's the come-on?
    I'm a Pro se, I could do better than that.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    His website needs spiffied-up. It's boring, no pazazz, no pop. Where's the hook? Where's the come-on?
    I'm a Pro se, I could do better than that.
    He is a legend in his own time and soo retiring.

    Suspect he has more business than he wants, yet still reaches out to help those deserving.
    Better to not open your mouth and be thought the fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.Ē Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  11. #11
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    He is a legend in his own time and soo retiring.

    Suspect he has more business than he wants, yet still reaches out to help those deserving.
    One of my closest friends is an attorney and he doesn't have a website. All word of mouth.

  12. #12
    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    A retention holster may have led to a beating or knifing. Just a thought.

    While these OC muggings, etc. are rare, we might expect to see more of them as OC grows. Just goes to show that firearm retention in all its methods is an important topic.
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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Someone should call the Grammar Police, as we were all robbed in reading that headline. - "Man wearing handgun open carry robbed in Newport News, police say"

    I would think that "Man robbed wearing openly carried handgun" would be better.
    Last edited by ProShooter; 02-03-2016 at 05:22 PM.
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  14. #14
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Still reserving judgement as to the validity of the report.

    Several similar previously reported incidents were later found to have been untrue.
    Better to not open your mouth and be thought the fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.Ē Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  15. #15
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Still reserving judgement as to the validity of the report.

    Several similar previously reported incidents were later found to have been untrue.
    +1

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    Virginia OCer robbed of gun!

    http://bearingarms.com/open-carrier-...paign=baupdate

    whats the excuse this time? he wasn't a ninja? lol oh and if its not concealed, its OCing! geez

  17. #17
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Already being discussed.....
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?132286-Open-Carrier-Robbed

    --Merged here by mod.--
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 02-03-2016 at 08:46 PM. Reason: added note

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by g21sfpistol View Post
    http://bearingarms.com/open-carrier-...paign=baupdate

    whats the excuse this time? he wasn't a ninja? lol oh and if its not concealed, its OCing! geez
    I guess Bob Owens has not done a great deal amount of research on OC. I know of many OCers who have a lot more training than CCers. He also stated that OC hasn't deterred a crime. So he never heard of the Pancake House incident in Kennessaw, GA? Or the several threads here.

    I guess wish that page had open discussion so he could be shown a few facts.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by g21sfpistol View Post
    http://bearingarms.com/open-carrier-...paign=baupdate

    whats the excuse this time? he wasn't a ninja? lol oh and if its not concealed, its OCing! geez
    If the incident is true it only proves you have the ability to count to one. Besides it is none of your business how others carry, no matter what the risks are. I spend no time on CC forums being an ass about CC. What is your excuse?
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    Regular Member garand_guy's Avatar
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    Letís take the story on its face first. One, use a retention holster so your weapon canít be easily grabbed or fall out during a struggle. Two, maintain situational awareness and avoid strange people who might try to rob you. Three, if someone demands your gun, itís time to create distance, draw it, and possibly fire, and not surrender it without a fight. Do all of these things and open carry isnít an issue.

    Details are lacking, because why should a news reporter push for details? Such as, why was the victim visiting a friend at a motel that, according to Google, has been a hotspot for prostitution arrests. In my experience, drugs and prostitution go together and tend to happen in high crime areas. Iím going to speculate, rightly or wrongly, that the victim was not an upstanding citizen visiting a friend at a discount motel. My ex-law enforcement instincts are telling me that this is a case where there is more than meets the eye.

    My supposition: The victim went to the motel to do something illegal, or maybe not. He was carrying a handgun concealed. At some point, for some reason, he got robbed (or rolled), and the gun was taken. When he reported it to police, he said it was openly carried. Why? Because open carry without a permit is legal in Virginia, but concealed carry requires a permit. Easy enough to explain with no witness and criminals who wonít tell the story differently.

    Now if additional facts come up, Iíll be the first to admit I was wrong, but this thing stinks to high heaven. Like the case in Oregon a while back, this looks like a person making bad choices in a bad neighborhood. I canít be entirely sure, so I will happily retract these statements if additional evidence comes to light. Still, Iím not buying this one nor should it be used as a reason against open carry.

    What we have here is a plausible open carry robbery, not a confirmed one. Taken on face value, yes, there arenít any extenuating circumstances and all my counterpoints are inferred, but with todayís lack of quality reporting, weíre not surprised there arenít more details. Now if my hypothesis is correct, it would follow that the police, nor the reporter, would be interested in following up. Just move on and let the victim pretend this was something it wasnít.

    The real problem with these stories are that concealed carry supremacistsóusually someone making a buck teaching a class or selling a bookóuse this kind of stuff to lend credence to their fallacious argument on why open carry is suicidal. Forget the fact that a lot of these guys are easy to pick out in a crowd with their loud pro-guns t-shirts, tactical cargo pants, tactical phone case, flashlights and knives clipped to their belts. Hypocrisy at its finest.

    To date, I am unaware of any civilian who has been truly disarmed, killed, or injured because they were legitimately openly carrying without a reasonable doubt as to the facts of the incident. A bare handful of stories, all with qualifiers, are used to discourage open carry. I donít mean to sound like Iím trying to be a blind apologist, but the outliers donít prove concealed carry is better. Each method has its own advantages and disadvantages and neither is inherently superior.

    The sad fact is, concealed carry supremacists have little to no experience practicing open carry in an urban area. Bob Owen over at Bearing Arms will have you think that if you so much as look out the front door with a pistol on your hip, ISIS terrorists will take you out right away. Okay, Iím exaggerating, but if open carry was so dangerous, why donít we have more of these stories? Using a 210 word story as evidence to totally discount open carry is just plain stupid and proves how incredibly close-minded the concealed carry only community really is.

    If this was really an issue, why arenít we seeing stories like this every day? Such as: Open carry mom robber of pink pistol at Target or College freshman beaten up, tuition and open carry pistol taken? Scant evidence, usually always qualified by circumstances into something less than open carry making someone into a target, is conflated into a systemic condemnation. Concealed carriers have been attacked because of their pistols too, once in Florida, and another man who was pistol whipped and robbed of his gun in Ohio.

    Frankly, those who have no practical experience with urban open carry have no business diminishing its practice or otherwise criticizing it. Legitimate criticism should center on a lack of a retention holster, training, and deficient situational awareness. Attacking someone over a method of carry shows a lack of respect for those committed to exercising their Second Amendment rights. You might prefer the Panthers to the Broncos, but hey, theyíre both going to the Super Bowl, so they canít be all bad, right? So donít worry about open carry, and if you donít have any experience with it, donít knock it.
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    And you tried to tell me you weren't eloquent... pshaw!
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garand_guy View Post
    --snipped--
    To date, I am unaware of any civilian who has been truly disarmed, killed, or injured because they were legitimately openly carrying without a reasonable doubt as to the facts of the incident. A bare handful of stories, all with qualifiers, are used to discourage open carry. I donít mean to sound like Iím trying to be a blind apologist, but the outliers donít prove concealed carry is better. Each method has its own advantages and disadvantages and neither is inherently superior.
    And that is the bottom line. Well said.
    Better to not open your mouth and be thought the fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.Ē Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  23. #23
    Regular Member garand_guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    And you tried to tell me you weren't eloquent... pshaw!
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    And that is the bottom line. Well said.
    Thanks everybody. I am happy my brain still thinks that way to see stuff like that.
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  24. #24
    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    I OC exclusively, without a retention holster. Here are a few pointers (I don't pretend to be an expert, and this should only be considered advice, not instruction):

    1. Always be aware of who is around you, be hyper aware of anyone in your safety zone (grocery store checkout line, crowded store), especially if they do not belong there or are acting suspiciously (pre attack indicators).

    2. Always keep your gun arm over your sidearm (supposing you carry at 3:00), either hand in pocket or elbow over grip. Scan the area before reaching away from your sidearm or other activity that would expose the sidearm to a gun grab.

    3. Act normally, smile, greet and make polite conversation as appropriate to make people at ease, and let any potential BGs know you are aware of them.

    4. Keep moving as much as possible to avoid static environments where a BG can stage on you or work up a plan for a gun grab.

    5. When you must be still, position yourself so that your sidearm is away from other people, such as against a wall, shopping cart, display stand, or one of your party.

    6. If you are the victim of a gun grab, there are options. Most holsters use a snug fit to prevent unholstering. Body movement is key to prevent the draw. Place your hand/elbow/arm down hard over the BG's hand to prevent the draw. Twist your body in a way that will allow you to strike/knife/pepper spray your opponent. Fight for your life. If your gun is taken, expect to be shot.

    7. Learn the methods of disarming your opponent and practice them. Videos are available on Youtube. There are classes also.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

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  25. #25
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    paramedic, with respect, your advice, except 6 & 7, is nothing more than developed basic SA in any given situation and is good to review.

    number 6: the last two sentences cover it...quote: Fight for your life. If your gun is taken, expect to be shot. unquote. yepper, the fight is lost...but telling folk to go for their knife, pepper spray, etc., distracts from the basic conceptual premise of squirming/body slamming/etc. the attacker to get them away from your firearm.

    number 7: I'm sorry say what? quote: Learn the methods of disarming your opponent and practice them. Videos are available on Youtube. There are classes also. unquote
    worse advice i have seen or heard...should have stopped at comment 6 and called it a day as close quarter disarming can't be learned on youtube!!

    this membership has heard of how many individuals being attacked for their firearm over the years? surely not enough to warrant advising someone who has good SA to wander into the etherworld of youtube to 'learn how to disarm anybody in close quarter exercise'...

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