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Thread: Kansas City, MO (Jackson County)- can I open carry?

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    Question Kansas City, MO (Jackson County)- can I open carry?

    I am 20 years old, and living in KCMO. I'm married with a baby, but my husband is in the navy and in South Carolina. I don't have the ability to move to him for another month. I don't feel safe on my own, and in an emergency, I have no way to protect myself or my child. Am I able to open carry?

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    Welcome to OCDO

    Quote Originally Posted by BabyHicks2015 View Post
    I am 20 years old, and living in KCMO. I'm married with a baby, but my husband is in the navy and in South Carolina. I don't have the ability to move to him for another month. I don't feel safe on my own, and in an emergency, I have no way to protect myself or my child. Am I able to open carry?
    I have asked the moderator to move your post to the Missouri state forum.

    Goose Creek, SC? I worked on the design and testing of the Moored Training Ships. I did my time at S1W in Idaho in 1970 and retired in 1995 from Charleston Naval Shipyard.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 02-03-2016 at 03:53 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    I have asked the moderator to move your post to the Missouri state forum.
    --snipped--
    State specific question. Done.
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    In KCMO proper, you have to have a CCW permit to open carry. It's one of a few exceptions to Missouri bring an Open Carry state. Outside of KCMO, you should be fine, but check to local ordinances to be sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcgunfan View Post
    In KCMO proper, you have to have a CCW permit to open carry. It's one of a few exceptions to Missouri bring an Open Carry state. Outside of KCMO, you should be fine, but check to local ordinances to be sure.

    Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
    Asking to get more specific info for the OP: Is the CCW permit required for one to carry lawfully in their residence or on that residence property?
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    I've not read the ordinance that carefully, but I would think that you may carry however you want in your property. I suspect carrying on other's property might be stickier. I honestly don't know though, since I've got my CCW permit I'm not that concerned.

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    Very few of the firearm statutes distinguish carrying on vs off your own premises, so they would seem to apply regardless.

    Firearm laws are preempted for CCW and for open carry by individuals with a CCW permit, so if you obtain a CCW, you only have to learn the state laws and won't have to worry about crossing any local laws.
    http://www.moga.mo.gov/mostatutes/st...100007501.html

    If you don't obtain a CCW permit, then local and county ordinances may apply (21.750.3(1) above link), and I'm pretty sure (but don't have direct links or knowledge) that KC poses some restrictions.

    However, 21.750.3(1) also states: No ordinance shall be construed to preclude the use of a firearm in the defense of person or property...

    So without a CCW permit, local ordinances could possibly restrict carrying the firearm, but not the use in a justifiable defense. So if you can't or don't want to obtain a permit, you may still have a firearm at the house and use it in defense (whether or not it's carried on the person in your own home may still be restricted). If your really worried about running afoul, even carrying in your own home, you could at least have one on hand ready to use. If that's your plan, I'd recommend not just leaving it lying around, but still easily accessible. A "quick release safe" fits the bill there, for example:
    http://www.gunvault.com/gun-safes/minivault.html/

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    http://www.moga.mo.gov/mostatutes/st...ml?&me=571.107

    If you are leaving in a month then seeking a MO permit may not be prudent given the short time frame and cost of training and the permit. I presume that your move will be permanent and as such a MO permit will become void after you arrive in SC.

    http://scstatehouse.gov/code/t23c031.php
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    county code 5534.3 says yes, it's KC code that says not without a ccw, unless you are on your own property, then state law pre-empts city law.

    also if you are traveling it appears you may, but you would have to leave the firearm in the car if it is within KC city limits, which may not be best option with a minor.

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    I know I'm late to this party but to help generally clarify some of the above:

    Ezek covers it and his post matches my understanding of KCMO as to OC in county but no OC in the city limits without a CCW and also more generally.

    To add some detail as to applicable parts of state statute:

    RSMO 571.030. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly:

    (1) Carries concealed upon or about his or her person a knife, a firearm, a blackjack or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use;

    But the exceptions (emphasis mine as to the areas pertinent to the OP):
    RSMO 571.030.3
    3. Subdivisions (1), (5), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section do not apply when the actor is transporting such weapons in a nonfunctioning state or in an unloaded state when ammunition is not readily accessible or when such weapons are not readily accessible. Subdivision (1) of subsection 1 of this section does not apply to any person nineteen** years of age or older or eighteen years of age or older and a member of the United States Armed Forces, or honorably discharged from the United States Armed Forces, transporting a concealable firearm in the passenger compartment of a motor vehicle, so long as such concealable firearm is otherwise lawfully possessed, nor when the actor is also in possession of an exposed firearm or projectile weapon for the lawful pursuit of game, or is in his or her dwelling unit or upon premises over which the actor has possession, authority or control, or is traveling in a continuous journey peaceably through this state. Subdivision (10) of subsection 1 of this section does not apply if the firearm is otherwise lawfully possessed by a person while traversing school premises for the purposes of transporting a student to or from school, or possessed by an adult for the purposes of facilitation of a school-sanctioned firearm-related event or club event.

    IMO (IANAL, etc) you can carry OC/C in your yard or other areas around your house/apt of which you have control or authority. So you can CC/OC in your house, on your deck, in your yard, etc. Common areas in say an apt complex are probably no go as you don't have possession, authority or control, BUT since you can carry your gun in your house/apt and you can carry it in your car, there MUST be some way to get it to and from your home and vehicle. While a cop could probably cite you for carry of a loaded firearm across an in-between area over which you do not have primary control, I don't imagine it being prosecuted if you were just going to and from the car or mailbox or something. Now if you were hanging out in complex's parking lot with friends rather than heading straight inside... Meh, probably different story.

    The extent of possession, authority or control is interesting. I work with real estate and a conversation came up recently about this as to townhouses and condos. I argued that if common areas are owned by a HOA and controlled by a board of directors, then no defined exemption and back to the "you gotta get it from your house to car somehow" situation. But, if each unit owner owns a proportional share of the common areas then that is possession and an equal authority of the premises with all the other owners for purposes of the statute. Still, with all of this we are presuming a law abiding citizen so why were you having to talk to LEO anyway and there are obviously some very gray areas to this. I'm glad I have a single family home and a CCW.


    Maybe that all helps someone or furthers the discussion. I regret that I wasn't around on the forum when the young lady asked. I hope she had no need for a firearm from when she asked until she was reunited with her husband in SC.

    EDIT: Corrected to reflect Ezek pointing out my error and confirming I shouldn't post complicated stuff when I am freshly brain dead from work. Thank you for the assist, Ezek.
    Last edited by deepdiver; 06-15-2016 at 11:15 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by deepdiver View Post
    I know I'm late to this party but to help generally clarify some of the above:

    Ezek covers it and his post matches my understanding of KCMO as to OC in county but no OC in the city limits without a CCW and also more generally.

    To add some detail as to applicable parts of state statute:

    RSMO 571.030. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly:

    (1) Carries concealed upon or about his or her person a knife, a firearm, a blackjack or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use;

    But the exceptions (emphasis mine as to the areas pertinent to the OP):
    RSMO 571.030.3
    3. Subdivisions (1), (5), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section do not apply when the actor is transporting such weapons in a nonfunctioning state or in an unloaded state when ammunition is not readily accessible or when such weapons are not readily accessible. Subdivision (1) of subsection 1 of this section does not apply to any person nineteen** years of age or older or eighteen years of age or older and a member of the United States Armed Forces, or honorably discharged from the United States Armed Forces, transporting a concealable firearm in the passenger compartment of a motor vehicle, so long as such concealable firearm is otherwise lawfully possessed, nor when the actor is also in possession of an exposed firearm or projectile weapon for the lawful pursuit of game, or is in his or her dwelling unit or upon premises over which the actor has possession, authority or control, or is traveling in a continuous journey peaceably through this state. Subdivision (10) of subsection 1 of this section does not apply if the firearm is otherwise lawfully possessed by a person while traversing school premises for the purposes of transporting a student to or from school, or possessed by an adult for the purposes of facilitation of a school-sanctioned firearm-related event or club event.

    IMO (IANAL, etc) you can carry concealed in your yard or other areas around your house/apt of which you have control or authority. So you can CC in your house, on your deck, in your yard, etc. Common areas in say an apt complex are probably no go as you don't have possession, authority or control, BUT since you can carry your gun in your house/apt and you can carry it in your car, there MUST be some way to get it to and from your home and vehicle. While a cop could probably cite you for carry of a loaded firearm across an in-between area over which you do not have primary control, I don't imagine it being prosecuted if you were just going to and from the car or mailbox or something. Now if you were hanging out in complex's parking lot with friends rather than heading straight inside... Meh, probably different story.

    The extent of possession, authority or control is interesting. I work with real estate and a conversation came up recently about this as to townhouses and condos. I argued that if common areas are owned by a HOA and controlled by a board of directors, then no defined exemption and back to the "you gotta get it from your house to car somehow" situation. But, if each unit owner owns a proportional share of the common areas then that is possession and an equal authority of the premises with all the other owners for purposes of the statute. Still, with all of this we are presuming a law abiding citizen so why were you having to talk to LEO anyway and there are obviously some very gray areas to this. I'm glad I have a single family home and a CCW.

    So parts of this seem kinda dumb in a lot of ways. Basically, in KCMO, St. Louis, Cape Girardeau, etc. there are places outside the walls of your home where you can only CC legally but not OC without a CCW. Kinda the opposite of the recent 9th Circuit ruling in Cali.

    Maybe that all helps someone or furthers the discussion. I regret that I wasn't around on the forum when the young lady asked. I hope she had no need for a firearm from when she asked until she was reunited with her husband in SC.
    IMO in your very own quoting of the law, in between the bolded, is the OC exception as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezek View Post
    IMO in your very own quoting of the law, in between the bolded, is the OC exception as well.
    ?? Do you mean, "nor when the actor is also in possession of an exposed firearm or projectile weapon for the lawful pursuit of game"?
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    ... nor when the actor is also in possession of an exposed firearm or projectile weapon for the lawful pursuit of game, ...
    RSMo 21.750. 3. (1) Except as provided in subdivision (2) of this subsection, nothing contained in this section shall prohibit any ordinance of any political subdivision which conforms exactly with any of the provisions of sections 571.010 to 571.070, with appropriate penalty provisions, or which regulates the open carrying of firearms readily capable of lethal use or the discharge of firearms within a jurisdiction, provided such ordinance complies with the provisions of section 252.243. ...
    RSMo 252.243.3. The discharge of firearms for lawful hunting, sporting, target shooting, and all other lawful purposes shall not be prohibited in hunting heritage protection areas, subject to all applicable state and federal laws, and local ordinances prohibiting hunting or the discharge of firearms adopted before August 28, 2007.
    Walking from your truck to your "hunting site" with a rifle over you back is not unlawful...for the most part.

    Convoluted to be sure. Needs to be cleaned up but that is for another session.
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    Quote Originally Posted by deepdiver View Post
    ?? Do you mean, "nor when the actor is also in possession of an exposed firearm or projectile weapon for the lawful pursuit of game"?
    yes that part as it, as it is attached to the next section. so the whole wording is. nor when the actor is also in possession of an exposed firearm or projectile weapon for the lawful pursuit of game, or is in his or her dwelling unit or upon premises over which the actor has possession, authority or control

    I believe in this pretense it allows OC on premises in which you own, or have authority over. since the next phrase after the comma starts with an "or"

    but what I believe really means jack squat.
    Last edited by Ezek; 06-15-2016 at 06:50 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezek View Post
    yes that part as it, as it is attached to the next section. so the whole wording is. nor when the actor is also in possession of an exposed firearm or projectile weapon for the lawful pursuit of game, or is in his or her dwelling unit or upon premises over which the actor has possession, authority or control

    I believe in this pretense it allows OC on premises in which you own, or have authority over. since the next phrase after the comma starts with an "or"

    but what I believe really means jack squat.
    I concur and stand corrected. I remembered that I at one time contended that statute allowed me to carry in my yard but when I was writing that I couldn't remember how I reached that conclusion and being brain-dead from work I didn't see what was right in front of me. Thank you for the correction.

    ETA: I have edited my original post to reflect Ezek's correction to my error.
    Last edited by deepdiver; 06-15-2016 at 11:16 PM.
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    I know that in North Kansas City they were concerned enough the screech to a stop when they saw me carrying a gun case to my car when packing for a hunting trip. Also got searched when I walked into Quiktrip wearing an empty holster. Thought there was no problem with a holster. What law is that? Got my car searched for the weapon that fit that holster. It was properly secured by me but they had no sense of humor for this incident. I was coming back from the range. So, no , parts of missouri are not friendly to carry or even having a weapon in the car.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skin'erback View Post
    I know that in North Kansas City they were concerned enough the screech to a stop when they saw me carrying a gun case to my car when packing for a hunting trip. Also got searched when I walked into Quiktrip wearing an empty holster. Thought there was no problem with a holster. What law is that? Got my car searched for the weapon that fit that holster. It was properly secured by me but they had no sense of humor for this incident. I was coming back from the range. So, no , parts of missouri are not friendly to carry or even having a weapon in the car.
    A good gun friendly attorney will help to ease the pain.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    A good gun friendly attorney will help to ease the pain.
    And, to inflict pain on the unfriendly...
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by skin'erback View Post
    I know that in North Kansas City they were concerned enough the screech to a stop when they saw me carrying a gun case to my car when packing for a hunting trip. Also got searched when I walked into Quiktrip wearing an empty holster. Thought there was no problem with a holster. What law is that? Got my car searched for the weapon that fit that holster. It was properly secured by me but they had no sense of humor for this incident. I was coming back from the range. So, no , parts of missouri are not friendly to carry or even having a weapon in the car.
    you should have said you don't consent to the encounter, after they detained you, stated you do not consent to search or seizure, if they asked where you car was state you are not answering questions and then KYBMS they can ask and ask, the only thing you say at this point is "am I free to go?" if possible, and you can do it without getting shot, retrieve your cell phone and record the incident, you can use it with a lawyer for a civil rights violation suit.

    IF they say they need to now confiscate the phone for evidence, ask for their email and you will send them a link to YOUTUBE, or post it to youtube the second the encounter is over and provide him a link, if he takes the phone he will delete any incriminating evidence against himself, if it is already on the internet, he's already busted and can't get out of it.

    and an empty holster if perfectly legal, no law against empty holsters, if you are OC'ing with a filled holster in KC you need a CC permit. the city is on a OC with CC permit only kick.

    also the officers had no RAS/PC to search you or your car, since what you where doing was not illegal. I would contact an attorney on this and see if anything can be done, such as a harassment suit.
    Last edited by Ezek; 07-09-2016 at 05:59 PM.

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