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Thread: FedGov to combat ‘clear and present danger’ posed by anti-government extremists

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    FedGov to combat ‘clear and present danger’ posed by anti-government extremists

    A month long standoff at an Oregon wildlife refuge came to an end last week when federal and local authorities engaged in a shootout with militants who had been occupying the refuge, killing one of the occupiers.

    This week a self-proclaimed member of the “U.S. Patriot Army” was arrested in Florida after police found shrapnel-filled pipe bombs and other weapons in his home.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...present-dange/

    http://in.reuters.com/article/uk-usa...-idINKCN0VD0HN

    Read Tom Clancy's Clear and Present Danger to see the potential abuses of such demonization.
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    [ ... ]Hmm...round two begins?
    Still minutes to go in the first round. You will be told to go to your corner when it's time.
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    U.S. eyes ways to toughen fight against domestic extremists

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    I thought that the group in Oregon were government stooges in the first place.

    So, government agents kill government agents and use this as a pretext for martial law.

    This smells like the OKC bombing all over again.

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    Regular Member DeSchaine's Avatar
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    It's the new and improved version of McCarthyism! Now with 200% more paranoia!
    Guard with jealous attention the public liberty.
    Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel.
    Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force.
    Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined.
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    John Lilburne was an extremist in the eyes of Oliver Cromwell's government.

    Who was John Lilburne? He was the guy who supplied the final push to win government recognition of your right to silence/right against self-incrimination.

    He suffered four trials for high treason. He was not allowed a lawyer in any of them. All four times he single-handedly took on the judges and prosecution, baiting, out-talking, and out-arguing, winning his own aquittals.

    And, he played a part in winning you the right for your jury to judge the law as well as the facts. (At least one of his juries ignored clear evidence that he had in fact violated an unjust law of Cromwell's government, and found him not guilty.)

    Cromwell, after the fourth acquittal, had to resort to illegally seizing him in the pre-dawn hours, and shipping him off to exile on an island. Cromwell surrounded the block with a regiment to prevent interference by the people.

    Why was Lilburne under attack by Cromwell's government? For writing tracts both in defense of English liberties, and critical of Cromwell for violating those liberties. The latter was high-treason in Cromwell's mind.


    Barry Goldwater once said, "I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice."

    I wonder if Goldwater knew about John Lilburne.

    And, look at how Goldwater phrased it. Not: "Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice." No. He said, "I would remind you..." He was taking it for granted that we already knew and understood, at some level.
    Last edited by Citizen; 02-04-2016 at 07:39 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    The failure to unseat LBJ and elect Barry Goldwater was one of the downturns to the left in American politics. We stand on the shoulders of giants. Imagine if we had had AuH20's shoulders to stand upon. Worse, he was succeeded by the Manchurian Candidate.
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    How many people who support the Constitution will be called terrorists before they just start rounding us all up?

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    I think this is relevant to this thread, but if not I can create a new one...

    The arrests and charges are continuing against those that were present at the Bundy standoff. This is a travesty of justice if I've ever seen one.

    https://www.justice.gov/usao-nv/pr/f...tandoff-nevada

    Some founders believed that punishments for rebellions should be low as to not discourage them, since they're so vital to liberty. This is something these federal agents obviously don't understand... Or maybe they do and they just stand firmly on the side opposite liberty.
    Advocate freedom please

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    I think this is relevant to this thread, but if not I can create a new one...

    The arrests and charges are continuing against those that were present at the Bundy standoff. This is a travesty of justice if I've ever seen one.

    https://www.justice.gov/usao-nv/pr/f...tandoff-nevada

    Some founders believed that punishments for rebellions should be low as to not discourage them, since they're so vital to liberty. This is something these federal agents obviously don't understand... Or maybe they do and they just stand firmly on the side opposite liberty.
    no, stealth, the thought of loss of 'power and control' w/ rewards therein coupled the blind lemming mentality is what has been proven time and time again in psychological experiments as well as what occurred at prisons holding 'islamic' radical under the bush rein of terror.

    what is unsettling, is psychologists are again 'experimenting' on human subjects, such as was done in the early sixties by Milgram and others.

    ipse
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    What a sad little militia they were. Those Bundyville militia clowns couldn't even keep control of bird sanctuary with nobody opposing them and they thought were going to intimidate the local, state and fed. govts. Meh

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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    What a sad little militia they were. Those Bundyville militia clowns couldn't even keep control of bird sanctuary with nobody opposing them and they thought were going to intimidate the local, state and fed. govts. Meh
    They were sad. They gave up. Any true American will proudly defend his country and the Constitution from all it's enemies within and without. Fact is they could still be there and still be free men had they taken a look at history. I was proud of them. Until they allowed themselves to be taken. And it happened again in Oregon. I'm actually disappointed there is no significant BLM here in WA. But I do live in Seattle so we shall see what happens. I will insist on OC and will not tolerate a single violation of my Constitutional rights. Honor them, respect them or they will have to murder me in cold blood.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    I think this is relevant to this thread, but if not I can create a new one...

    The arrests and charges are continuing against those that were present at the Bundy standoff. This is a travesty of justice if I've ever seen one.

    https://www.justice.gov/usao-nv/pr/f...tandoff-nevada

    Some founders believed that punishments for rebellions should be low as to not discourage them, since they're so vital to liberty. This is something these federal agents obviously don't understand... Or maybe they do and they just stand firmly on the side opposite liberty.
    Thomas Jefferson letter to William Stephen Smith:

    "God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion... We have had 13. states independant 11. years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century & a half for each state. What country before ever existed a century & half without a rebellion? & what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms...The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. it is it's natural manure..."

    https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/jefferson/105.html
    Last edited by Citizen; 03-05-2016 at 10:49 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post

    Some founders believed that punishments for rebellions should be low as to not discourage them, since they're so vital to liberty. This is something these federal agents obviously don't understand... Or maybe they do and they just stand firmly on the side opposite liberty.
    You're brave talking like that here. The establishment doesnt like free thinkers. Be careful as big brother punishes crimespeak. One is only entitled to the freedom allowed by the government. The Constitution says what the Government says it does and disagreeing is dangerous and subversive
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

    "Any and all restrictions on the bearing of arms in public places are nullified as per the Second Amendment"

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