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Thread: Arcane NJ law prevents retired cops from carrying concealed weapon

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    Arcane NJ law prevents retired cops from carrying concealed weapon

    Arcane NJ law prevents retired cops from carrying concealed weapon

    They were cops with real police powers, they even helped Newark and Elizabeth police. But a judge and the state police seem to say they weren't real police. You know it's bad in New Jersey when two former cops in good standing can't get a carry permit.



    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/02/08...ed-weapon.html



    "Kotchkowski and Dunsmuir both contend they worked for a state agency and thus should be granted a conceal carry permit. But the wording of the law doesn’t make that so clear, according to the New Jersey State Police, which oversees the permit process.

    “How are UMDNJ police not a state law enforcement agency?" Roughneen asked, according to the Star-Ledger. “By that logic, that makes the entire Rutgers police force -- which is one of the largest in the state -- ineligible. And that flies in the face of the intent of the law, which is to increase public safety.”

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    What a shame, what a shame.

    They should have argued that our natural rights allow us to carry. But then they would have to admit to being tyrants.

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    Regular Member Have Gun - Will Carry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest View Post
    Arcane NJ law prevents retired cops from carrying concealed weapon

    They were cops with real police powers, they even helped Newark and Elizabeth police. But a judge and the state police seem to say they weren't real police. You know it's bad in New Jersey when two former cops in good standing can't get a carry permit.



    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/02/08...ed-weapon.html



    "Kotchkowski and Dunsmuir both contend they worked for a state agency and thus should be granted a conceal carry permit. But the wording of the law doesn’t make that so clear, according to the New Jersey State Police, which oversees the permit process.

    “How are UMDNJ police not a state law enforcement agency?" Roughneen asked, according to the Star-Ledger. “By that logic, that makes the entire Rutgers police force -- which is one of the largest in the state -- ineligible. And that flies in the face of the intent of the law, which is to increase public safety.”

    .
    Good! Let them see how it feels to be treated as second class citizens, then maybe they won't feel so "elite". See how those who they ostensibly "protected " feel being disarmed and left defenseless... then see if their attitude changes a bit! (Of course it won't, since they undoubtedly feel entitled to carry, unlike the little people they're surrounded by...)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest View Post
    Arcane NJ law prevents retired cops from carrying concealed weapon

    They were cops with real police powers, they even helped Newark and Elizabeth police. But a judge and the state police seem to say they weren't real police. You know it's bad in New Jersey when two former cops in good standing can't get a carry permit.

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/02/08...ed-weapon.html

    "Kotchkowski and Dunsmuir both contend they worked for a state agency and thus should be granted a conceal carry permit. But the wording of the law doesn’t make that so clear, according to the New Jersey State Police, which oversees the permit process.

    “How are UMDNJ police not a state law enforcement agency?" Roughneen asked, according to the Star-Ledger. “By that logic, that makes the entire Rutgers police force -- which is one of the largest in the state -- ineligible. And that flies in the face of the intent of the law, which is to increase public safety.”

    .
    Can they pump their own gas as a compromise?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Can they pump their own gas as a compromise?
    Best post yet in thread ...

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    Christie will fix it - he is pro-2A I heard him say....


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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    NJ law in this case is violating federal law, they can carry concealed without a permit as long as they meet the training requirements. LEOSA gives them the authority no matter what the state police say.
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    "We know of plenty of cases where campus police were approved, including two recent cases in Middlesex and Burlington (counties)," Roughneen said.
    Great, prompt the NJSP to revoke the illegally issued permits.

    The real question...why do they have a gun in the first place? It is NJ after all and only the praetorian guard are so blessed.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    First, I obviously agree that they are not elite and should get over it. Fight for OUR rights, not your own.

    But, how is this not settled? Are these campus cops not currently state-sworn as LEOs? Or are they just assumed to be LEOs because they have uniforms, badges, guns, and run in a gang?
    Last edited by MAC702; 02-09-2016 at 11:08 AM.
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    UMDNJ is the Barney Fife to Rutgers' Andy Taylor. Apparently NJSP do not consider UMDNJ "cops" as being "real cops" know what I mean.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    NJ law in this case is violating federal law, they can carry concealed without a permit as long as they meet the training requirements. LEOSA gives them the authority no matter what the state police say.
    I thought federal law only kicked in once the State in question actually certified a person as a former LEO with appropriate training and credentials.

    In this case, NJ is simply saying that these persons were not really full police officer and therefore don't qualify for the former/retired LEO credentials that would allow them to carry under federal law.

    If NJ were to try to decide that a campus cop from another State didn't qualify, after the home State had issued credentials, that would violate federal law.

    In any event, I'm with most others on this thread in having zero sympathy for these guys. Having a retired cop badge and former cop training provides no more right to carry than does a permit issued by any State or simply being a law-abiding citizen of this nation. Congress should act under its 14th amendment powers to protect our 2nd amendment rights to carry anywhere the US flag flies. Enough with special benefits for cops, retired cops, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    I thought federal law only kicked in once the State in question actually certified a person as a former LEO with appropriate training and credentials.

    In this case, NJ is simply saying that these persons were not really full police officer and therefore don't qualify for the former/retired LEO credentials that would allow them to carry under federal law.
    A lot would depends on there job description, arrest powers, carrying firearm on duty, or other things that makes one a LEO.

    If your a qualified LEO or retired qualified under HR218 it is not up to the state level government to issue ones credentials or give you training. It is more an individual department responsibility if one processes a valid retirement card one can have any qualified LEO instructor qualify you and give you a qualification card to go along with your retirement card under the federal law.

    Under NJ law they could very well have job descriptions that could or not make these persons qualified under HR218 or they just might be using the very anti gun attitude that the less people we have armed the better.
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    Maybe their self-proclaimed 2nd Amendment champion, Governor Chrissy, can step in and save the day. Suddenly he has much more time to pursue his current job rather than the one he was applying for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian D. View Post
    Maybe their self-proclaimed 2nd Amendment champion, Governor Chrissy, can step in and save the day. Suddenly he has much more time to pursue his current job rather than the one he was applying for.
    Maybe he can write an Executive Order.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    A lot would depends on there job description, arrest powers, carrying firearm on duty, or other things that makes one a LEO.

    If your a qualified LEO or retired qualified under HR218 it is not up to the state level government to issue ones credentials or give you training. It is more an individual department responsibility if one processes a valid retirement card one can have any qualified LEO instructor qualify you and give you a qualification card to go along with your retirement card under the federal law.

    Under NJ law they could very well have job descriptions that could or not make these persons qualified under HR218 or they just might be using the very anti gun attitude that the less people we have armed the better.
    Agree, if they had the training, certification, powers of a police officer they are covered whether NJ state idiots recognize them or not. The federal law supersedes conceal carry laws in all states. NJ is not exempt. As long as their last department gives them proper documentation, and they qualify once a year they are covered. I carry very little papers when out and about, though departments are issuing retired ID's one can still get hung up while an active LEO verifies. That is why I prefer OC, I do not have to carry papers or go through the explanation process. And OC is not covered by LEOSA, only CC. I would OC even if CC was legal without permission.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    --snipped--I would OC even if CC was legal without permission.


    IMHO - Constitutional Carry just acknowledges the right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post


    IMHO - Constitutional Carry just acknowledges the right.
    And it is becoming easier in more and more places.
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